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Some interesting RAC recommendations going into next year.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/rac/2015-11_rac_packet.pdf

One of the more interesting ones is allowing magnifying scopes on muzzys!

Some of em:

1. We will present the statewide elk management plan. If accepted in its entirety, the following rule changes
will be required.
A. We recommend updating the big game rule to allow a person to obtain 3 elk permits annually with
the following restrictions: 1) a maximum of 1 permit can be for a bull, 2) a maximum of 1 permit
can be obtained through the antlerless big game draw, and 3) a maximum of 2 antlerless elk
permits can be obtained over the counter.
B. We recommend allowing general season muzzleloader bull elk hunters to harvest a cow or bull
elk with their muzzleloader permit on select units that are over objective (similar to archery elk).
C. We recommend defining private lands only permits, which allow a person to take one antlerless
elk on private lands using any weapon during the season dates and area as approved by the
Wildlife Board.
D. We recommend defining antlerless elk control permits.
2. We recommend defining 2-doe permits for mule deer and pronghorn.
3. We recommend prohibiting smart guns (computerized targeting firearms) to take big game.
4. We recommend allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders during the muzzleloader season.
5. We recommend allowing hunters to use an electronic range-finding device attached to a bow to take big
game.
 

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If were going to screw up the the Elk herds. Then attaching Range Finders to a Bow(DUMB) How many hunters that take 100 yard shots now will increase that>> say 200 yards or better? Hers My Plan. U All Love This, I Recommend as an Archery Hunter for 52 years TA> DA> STATE WIDE ARCHERY>> 3 POINT OR BETTER>> Antler Restrictions seem to be workin on the Elk>> Wait a second can't do antler deer restrictions.. Produces smaller deer. and increases poaching.. No enforcement..hunters who lack any ethics..OH! been working for the Elk herds..??
 

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More late muzzy deer hunts....

Statewide Changes
1. We recommend adding 6 additional limited entry muzzleloader deer hunts. These hunts would occur on
general season units that are exceeding management objectives of 18-20 bucks per 100 does.
They include 1) Fillmore, 2) Monroe, 3) Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits, 4) Plateau, Thousand
Lakes, 5) South Slope, Yellowstone, and 6) Wasatch Mtns, East.
 

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If were going to screw up the the Elk herds. Then attaching Range Finders to a Bow(DUMB) How many hunters that take 100 yard shots now will increase that>> say 200 yards or better? Hers My Plan. U All Love This, I Recommend as an Archery Hunter for 52 years TA> DA> STATE WIDE ARCHERY>> 3 POINT OR BETTER>> Antler Restrictions seem to be workin on the Elk>> Wait a second can't do antler deer restrictions.. Produces smaller deer. and increases poaching.. No enforcement..hunters who lack any ethics..OH! been working for the Elk herds..??
People will always attempt to make long shots. It doesn't matter if a range finder is on the end of a bow or not. I guess you could make an argument that reducing to a archery a long bow / recurve only and that would significantly reduce long shots, until they made a long bow / recurve with compound technology.

Long bow 7,400-7,200 BC

Crossbow ~700 BC

Compound Bow 1966 AD

Range Finders on Compound bows ~2010-2015 AD

Heat Seeking Arrows for bows 2020 AD

Mini Sharks with Laser Beams attached to their head on arrows 2030 AD

I do like the 3 point or better idea for deer and I like the 5 point or better idea for elk.
 

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I thought the majority of hunters they surveyed said they were in favor of more primitive weapons and did not want magnified scopes and the like? Here we go again with changes that will limit hunter opportunity just like rifle hunting elk in the rut. Don't get me wrong, I like high success rates too, but not at the cost of waiting years to hunt. Is everybody really more interested in a trophy every 5-10-15 or more years? Colorado looks better and better to get my money I guess.
 

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They have some VERY interesting changes in mind this year, should make for some heated RAC meetings. #4 and #5 irk me, I dislike how we keep trying to take the "HUNT" out of hunting! With the direction we're heading we might as well just have 3 any weapon seasons! Other proposals that peaked my interest are the addition of 6 new late muzzy deer LE units and the one that really surprised me is the proposal to add 5 new LE rifle elk hunts that run the same time as the GS spike hunt. I can already imagine the possible issues you could run into having that tag. Probably the last LE elk tag I would want.
 

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Is everybody really more interested in a trophy every 5-10-15 or more years?
People here certainly post that... repeatedly. Drives me nuts... I want to hunt every year, *I* will decide what is or isnt a trophy for ME. I dont need some numskull defining what I need to be shooting.

EVERY year big animals are taken in every unit on the state. It just takes more effort. When I hear someone willing to hunt every 5 years for a chance at a bigger critter, I just think they are some of the lazier hunters and what they are really saying is "I want to shoot a bigger animal closer to the road".

Guys who bust their A$$ like Ridgetop, get into big stuff every year. Kudos to them.

-DallanC
 

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I thought the majority of hunters they surveyed said they were in favor of more primitive weapons and did not want magnified scopes and the like? Here we go again with changes that will limit hunter opportunity just like rifle hunting elk in the rut. Don't get me wrong, I like high success rates too, but not at the cost of waiting years to hunt. Is everybody really more interested in a trophy every 5-10-15 or more years? Colorado looks better and better to get my money I guess.
Magnified Scopes on muzzleloaders was a yes on the survey.

Utah is doing some things to prevent the clogging of points by introducing new seasons. There are a lot of limited entry deer hunts now which helps.

It is easy to argue that more opportunity is needed in a trophy elk state, but the reverse argument for bigger antlered elk is just as strong in a opportunity state.

The issue is that there are too many people allying for the number of tags available and want the opportunity to shoot the next world record with their tag.

You can't have big animals and get to hunt them every year when you only have ~2,000 tags available and an exuberant amount of people applying for those tags.

Primitive weapons is an interesting way to suggest bow or muzzleloader, because with modern technology neither one is really primitive. I mean the compound bow was invented in 1966 and modern muzzleloaders shoot farther and more accurately than the predecessors whether they are exposed breech, ball & patch or inlines.
 

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My opinions are:

-I don't really like the extra LE deer units in November much because they are cutting right into the rut and then you are proposing magnified scopes in muzzleloaders to further the success. However as long as the tag numbers are kept to only 5-10 per unit that is opened up to these late season hunts I'm fine with it because it will unclog the LE point system which is forever being backed up.

-I would like to see a reduction in anterless tags

-I like they are looking into a dedicated hunter elk program

-The late LE elk hunts that would run the same time as the spike hunts I like. Yes it would be busy during that time, but YOU have the choice to apply for that tag or not. It will also help with the backed up point system and have a lower success rate I would imagine.

-I really hope they put a cap on the magnified power allowed on a muzzleloader or success rates will go up I think.
 

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Shooting deer with a bow is hard. I don't care how fancy your bow is. Success rates reflect that. Muzzy hunting is easy if you can find deer. I'm not sure magnification will increase success. In areas with good deer (buck) success rates are as high as rifle.
 
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My opinions are:

-I don't really like the extra LE deer units in November much because they are cutting right into the rut and then you are proposing magnified scopes in muzzleloaders to further the success. However as long as the tag numbers are kept to only 5-10 per unit that is opened up to these late season hunts I'm fine with it because it will unclog the LE point system which is forever being backed up.

-The late LE elk hunts that would run the same time as the spike hunts I like. Yes it would be busy during that time, but YOU have the choice to apply for that tag or not. It will also help with the backed up point system and have a lower success rate I would imagine.

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I like the extra LE November deer hunts just like I like the Antelope island hunt. It takes a lot of people away from what I am putting in for.

What is your thought process in combining late LE and spike. I don't see how that accomplishes anything? I put in for Late LE elk right now for 2 reasons. first is I don't have that many points and second is that I love that it is secluded from the other hunts. With archery, Early, Muzzle loader they are all stacked right next to other. with it stacked you have some overlay of people who are hunting and others that are trying to scout for their upcoming hunt.
 

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I didn't see where they are going to address the loop hole in the draws for the general season deer hunts.

I would also like to see if you put in for a LE hunt you can't put in for a general hunt, make the hunter choose one or the other.

For scopes on a ML, even if I would like to see them do away with all scopes on the ML's, I have a nice 3x9 that I would stick on mine in a hear beat. If I would of had a scope of that power I would of had a very huge buck this last ML season. Or at least a better chance at one than my open sights provided me.
 

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3. We recommend prohibiting smart guns (computerized targeting firearms) to take big game.
Why? I'd really like to hear a solid, reasonable explanation for this.

4. We recommend allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders during the muzzleloader season.
Perfect! This should have happened a long time ago.

5. We recommend allowing hunters to use an electronic range-finding device attached to a bow to take big game.
Agree! If they so choose to do so.
 

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It is interesting that the UDWR is recommending adding more late ML hunts. I can guarantee you that the Mule Deer Committee was told that general season permits would increase rather than using late ML hunts as the "control".

As for magnifying scopes on MLs, lets just keep making it easier to kill the bucks everyone seems to want to protect.

Ah well, we can keep abusing the point system and draw tags ahead of others and now we can have actual yardage to shoot our bows at farther distances so it will all be more messed up than it already is......
 

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Seven, the proposal does not combine the late rifle with the spike hunt. The early and late rifle would stay as is and a 3rd rifle hunt would be created that ran during the any weapon spike hunt.
 

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I would also like to see if you put in for a LE hunt you can't put in for a general hunt, make the hunter choose one or the other.
In that case, what would be the difference between general hunts and LE hunts? Wouldn't they all be LE? If so, I don't think I would support that. It's nice to be able to hunt deer every year or two and still apply for LE pronghorn.

If I could apply for a deer hunt and pronghorn, I'd be fine with it.
 

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I didn't see where they are going to address the loop hole in the draws for the general season deer hunts.
Nope, I don't see anything either. I thought last year, they agreed there was an issue but wanted to "study it more" and deal with it this year. So much for that.

Good grief, I guess one just has to keep "playing the game". :roll:
 

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2016 Recommended RAC Changes
1. We recommend allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders during the muzzleloader season

about time
 
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2016 Recommended RAC Changes
1. We recommend allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders during the muzzleloader season

about time
Exactly, unless someone can clarify how ME using an optic on a muzzleloader will adversely affect THEIR hunt and hunting experience I think it's asinine to argue that. Unfortunately for me, over the last 3 years my eyesight has diminished faster than I ever dreamed. In my younger days I had incredible eyesight, now I can't use open sights without the front or rear sight being blurred. My eyes no longer can focus on two objects at differing distances clearly. That's why I am having to go through the rather expensive process of putting a scope on every rifle I own just to be able to shoot them. I wish this wasn't the case but it is so. Heck even with optics I have to wear the right magnification eye glasses in order to be able to see the crosshairs and target clearly. I can only imagine what my capabilities will be like in 10 years...it sucks. If you feel that having a scope on a muzzle loader is not for you then don't but don't keep folks who really need one from having the right to use one.
 
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