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The only place where more hunters could be on the mountain can only come from archery elk. Pretty much everything else is alloted via draw. Yes, it's taking longer for cow tags because more people want them, but those tag numbers are set, so barring large increases or decreases by the DWR, they aren't putting more people in the field. Unlimited archery elk on the other hand? Sky's the limit!!
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I have to agree on the 5 year wait to draw a Cow tag. I have 6 points and couldn't draw last year. I'm sure I could have drawn on a different unit, but I don't want to rely on Mother Nature to bring the herds down.


Maybe the wildlife board should look into a 2 year waiting period for cow tags? That's the only way to eliminate the amount of people applying each year. And we all know there is more coming to Utah every day.
 

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I could side with those attributing the lower permit draw success rates to the COVID except that in the case of the unit I hunt these tag cuts took place 5 years ago. Well before the VID moved to town.

It went from alomst 300 permits a year to somewhere in the 30's. Roughly 90% cut. It instantly created a backlog of applicants. Then when they cut them a bit more the following year, point creep was guaranteed.


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Maybe the wildlife board should look into a 2 year waiting period for cow tags? That's the only way to eliminate the amount of people applying each year. And we all know there is more coming to Utah every day.
I'm not sure I understand how this would help. If you have to sit out 2 years and it still takes 2-4 points to draw you are back up to 4-6 years to draw again.
 

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People do understand that you aren’t required to hunt the cow unit closest to your home right? You can put in for any unit you want. Don’t wanna wait 4 years? Apply for a unit that you can draw with 0-1 points and hunt every year. Many units can be drawn with very few points or none at all.

It’s funny to see what dudes complain about regarding antlerless. One year they issue a pile of tags and everyone is mad that they give too many. The next year they have huge cuts, and they complain it takes 3 points to draw. Utah hunters are worse than women when it comes to making up their mind on what they are mad about and trying to figure out what they want.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I'm not sure I understand how this would help. If you have to sit out 2 years and it still takes 2-4 points to draw you are back up to 4-6 years to draw again.
Why is there a 5 year wait to apply for a LE tag? With that wait, your going to be applying nearly 15 years or longer to draw. (depending on the unit and species)

It moves point holders through the system with the luck of drawing the tag. Imagine what the odds to draw LE Elk permit on the Manti would be if there wasn't a waiting period.

Moose..... I agree with you on the ability to draw a few tags every other year, or every year. There is a reason for that, low animal numbers, private land, or just a pain in the butt to get to.

My idea of a cow elk tag is to get some meat and not bust my hump doing it. If I bust my hump for an Elk, it's going have a set hanging between the legs, which I'm not opposed to doing. Been there, done it many times.

Hunting is changing in Utah from what it used to be 20 years ago. Either we figure out how to play the game, or fold and move away from the table.
 

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With the way point creep is I'd suggest to going even longer between elk hunts to get people through the system.

They just changed the deer waiting period from 2 to 5 years so why not move the elk waiting period from 5 up to 7 or 8 years or even 10?

Most LE elk hunts are once in a lifetime as it is now.

Perhaps if they changed the point system from having two sets of points for elk, one for cow and one for bull to just one set of points just for elk. Let the applicant decided if they want a cow or bull tag in their future.
 

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If you want to eliminate point creep why not just make all tags OIL. That should help considerably.
Most of the ones in the draw are already that.

When you need 20+ points to draw a tag for a hunt, isn't it a once in a lifetime?

My first LE tag was drawn with 9 points back in 2001, now that tag takes 25+ for a non resident. My second LE tag was a deer tag in 2015 that took me 15 years to draw, that tag is more than 20 now and I doubt that I'll ever draw it again.
 

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It's funny to see what dudes complain about regarding antlerless. One year they issue a pile of tags and everyone is mad that they give too many. The next year they have huge cuts, and they complain it takes 3 points to draw. Utah hunters are worse than women when it comes to making up their mind on what they are mad about and trying to figure out what they want.
Therein lies the problem, doesn't it? Why the year to year swings? If they'd just stick with what they've got we wouldn't have to play a giant guessing game and be subject to wild fluctuations in tags. Yes, that bothers me, and you've given a great example of why! So thank you.

Also, waiting period for antlerless would be terrible. An opportunity meat hunt with a waiting period? And as stated above, is there a difference if you have to have 5 points to draw a tag, or if there is a 2 year waiting period and it still takes 3 points to draw it? Middlefork, you may be right that it is coming, but it would be terrible if we get to that. It seems to me that there has got to be a better way to go about it.
 

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Last I knew there were no random draws for antlerless tags so the tags are issued for the top points holders first and work down. No chance for low points total to draw a tag unless there are a lot of tags issued.

LE tags are indeed OIL tags for the most part. Why not make it official?

I'm all for letting people hunt as much as possible. Who here thinks people are going to learn how to hunt any species if they never get a chance to hunt?
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
This is my first year to apply for a LE Elk tag after the 5 year waiting period. It was in the back of my mind that the 2015 tag I held would become the ONLY LE Elk tag I'd draw in Utah. I'm not going to apply for another tag in hopes I'll draw before I take a dirt knap and surrender those years and money applying.


So there will be one less applicant to worry about and make the odds in your favor to draw. I honestly think my odds are better at drawing the Sportsman tag the way things are going. Well, maybe not.


Besides, Ice fishing is going to be slowing down in a few weeks and that slow time will be on us, so ya, what else are we going to bitch about. It happens every year.
 

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I used my elk points in 2011. I knew when I drew it was my only LE tag at 61.

Since then I put in for LE deer just to irritate a few people.
if I draw great, if not it won't be the end of the world.

I Don't put in for OIL species. I've never had the desire to hunt those animals. A few friends and relatives do and if one draws a tag great. I'll be the first to help them if I can. We put in for antlerless and can have a tag or two every year so we get a taste of the good stuff.

But so far (knock on wood) we have never not been able to hunt something big game.
 

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Last I knew there were no random draws for antlerless tags so the tags are issued for the top points holders first and work down. No chance for low points total to draw a tag unless there are a lot of tags issued.
Antlerless moose random tags.

And no, don't turn LE species into OIL. At 30, all I'd have left to hunt is LE deer, which I will draw while on my current elk wait period.

We have our OIL species.

It's amazing how often guys are screaming to limit their opportunities even more. Unreal.
 

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Simple fact is that there are not enough animals / tags present to get everyone the tag / animal they would like to get. Supply and demand at its finest!

I agree with Moose in that LE should stay LE and OIL remain OIL. Why on earth do we as hunters want to limit ourselves on the opportunity to hunt? Makes absolutely no sense to me. If you want to wait 25+ years to hunt elk (looking at you Vanilla...in a good way), then more power to you, but that is YOUR CHOICE! Just because you can't draw the tag you want in a lifetime, don't restrict everyone else's chances to draw the tags they are gunning for.

There are plenty of opportunities to hunt a quality unit in less than 10 years. Of course, that requires archery tackle, but you're hunting right? If you want to use a muzzy, tack on a few years and you're there. Rifle...start saving those points boys!! Sure, we'd all love to hunt the top tier units, but they are top tier for a reason - more restrictive tag numbers to grow more and bigger animals. If that's your play, then go for it! Just realize that 400" bulls or 200" deer around every bend in the road are not normal.

In today's age, if you want to hunt upper-middle or top tier units on a somewhat "regular" basis, it's going to take years planning. That planning is going to involve multiple states and lots of money in the points game. Come up with your plan and work it. You'll be hunting some better hunts more frequently. But if you can't or aren't willing to do that, realize that there just aren't enough animals or tags to go around that will make everybody happy. In this respect, I think we as hunters are a little selfish thinking only about what "we" want and not what's best for the hunting community in general.

Hunting opportunities abound out there. If you're not hunting LE or OIL hunts, get out and hunt the general or antlerless hunts. Yes, even that takes some planning these days, but plenty of opportunity is out there if you don't pigeon-hole yourself into one unit all the time. Maybe you only get to hunt deer one year, but bull elk next, and antlerless elk the year after that. On your 4th year you're back to deer...but maybe in between years 1 and 4 you did an out of state deer hunt. Now you've hunted deer 3 out of 4 years. Not bad right?? What it all comes down to is how much you really want it! If it's that important to you, then you'll find a way to get it done, but don't take away opportunity from others to do so. When it comes down to that, IMO, it's just selfishness.
 

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We live in the land of opportunity - with a little budgeting and some planning, LOTS of "doors" can be opened.

It's nice not to have to fully rely on the draw to hunt every year. ;-)
 
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