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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted my thoughts on this but no one has answered my QUESTION. If a land owner does not give my access to public land that I have a RIGHT to then is he breaking the law? Please let me know. Thanks Tinez (Hunt Hard Die Rich) :lol:
 

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If there is a PUBLIC easment or road and he blocks off access, yes.

If there is no access to public land and he doesn't want to grant you the right to trespass, no.
 

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Tex has it right. I will add that even if the landowner locks the gate on a public easement, you still have no right to take physical action against the property. You must contact the local law enforcement and they deal with the problem. The easement is protected by public officials, not the individual citizen.
 

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This may be splitting hairs on this one so I'll try to be careful. But publically owned land (Forest Service, BLM, State Lands) may be closed to public access. We do not have a "right" to these lands. There are terms upon which we may use these lands, but it is not a "right" as we understand that term as it is used in the constitution. ("Right to keep and bear arms;" "right of the people peaceably to assemble;" "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures;" etc......)
 

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I agree with everything that has been said so far. We sportsmen do not have the right to take the law into our own hands. Gary fish is also right that public lands can be and frequently are closed to public access. But I would add that public lands must be close by agencies responsable for the management of those lands. Private land owners do not have the right to close public lands. They do however have the right to close their private lands to public access. It is unfortunatly up to those management agencies to secure easments through private land to access public land. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't go to the trouble to do so. We can only follow the rules, laws and policies in place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
These are the State Laws that are in the D.W.R proclaimation. Mabye I read them wrong I'm not sure!! If the hearings have taken place then who has the Documentation and where might I find it ???I have asked our DWR people and they play pass the hot potato with me and send me on a scavenger hunt to find answers. I still havent found them out. Thats why I'm asking the higher powers that be (fellow SPORTSMAN)(Here is an example ) let's say you have theright to voteand you go to use that RIGHT and the candidate you are not voting for won't let you in to vote because you are not voting for him, then is he breaking the law for not allowing you your Right to vote????

23-21-4. Right of access to lands for hunting, trapping, or fishing reserved to public -- Exception.
(1) Except as provided in Section 65A-2-5, there is reserved to the public the right of access to all lands owned by the state, including those lands lying below the official government meander line or high water line of navigable waters, for the purpose of hunting, trapping, or fishing.
(2) When any department or agency of the state leases or sells any lands belonging to the state of Utah lying below the official government meander line or the high water line of the navigable waters within the state, the lease, contract of sale, or deed shall contain a provision that:
(a) the lands shall be open to the public for the purpose of hunting, trapping, or fishing during the lawful season, except as provided by Section 65A-2-5; and
(b) no charge may be made by the lessee, contractee, or grantee to any person who desires to go upon the land for the purpose of hunting, trapping, or fishing. Is this not taking place when public land is land locked and the land owner or land owner's are using that land for hunting and charging people to hunt on his land, and because the state land is land locked and he see's fit to use it as his own land because who is going to question him on it???
(3) Lands referred to in this section shall be regulated or closed to hunting, trapping, or fishing as provided in this title for other lands and waters.
65A-2-5. Protection of leasehold interests.
The director of the Division of Forestry, Fire, and State Lands, in conjunction with the Wildlife Board, may restrict or limit public use of leased parcels of sovereign lands for hunting, trapping, or fishing:
(1) upon the petition of the affected lessee;
(2) after a public hearing; and
(3) upon a determination that unrestricted public use for hunting, trapping, or fishing substantially interferes with the primary activities authorized by the lease.
 

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Very colorful post. :D Couldn't quit make out the yellow though. Your situation can be very frustrating, and dealing with the dwr can also be eqauly frustrating. People out here run into this all the time dealing with diamond mtn. great animals up there, a lot of trophy quality animals, but it is hard and sometimes imposible to get to them. Feel your pain though
 

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RiverRat's post is in jest, but not that far off. In the case you are describing, the private land owner isn't denying you access to the state land, he is not allowing you to cross his/her private land. And therein is the difference. Some landowners charge a "trespass" fee to cross their land to get to the public land - because it is usually the easiest route to the public land and in your interest to pay to trespass, than pay to have a helicopter drop you in there. And while I don't like it, the private land owner is totally within the law to cut you off (assuming there is not a legal right of way or road easement in place). But in its most simple form, it is legal. And it sucks.
 

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Perhaps an appropriate analogy - Say you live at the end of the cul-de-sac. Behind your house is the elementary school. It would be a nice short-cut to let all the kids on your street walk through your yard to school every day. But instead, they have to walk back down the street, one block over, and back up to the school - essentially tripling the distance they have to walk. They have every "right" to get to school. But you don't have to let them across your yard to get there.
 

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GaryFish said:
Perhaps an appropriate analogy - Say you live at the end of the cul-de-sac. Behind your house is the elementary school. It would be a nice short-cut to let all the kids on your street walk through your yard to school every day. But instead, they have to walk back down the street, one block over, and back up to the school - essentially tripling the distance they have to walk. They have every "right" to get to school. But you don't have to let them across your yard to get there.
Most excelent post Fish man!

I think that you should go into the Analagy business and whether you do or don't, you should at least post your statement once a month as that seems to be how often the subject comes up.
 

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True Garyfish.... you're spot on with the analogy. Another good thing to do is check with the county recorder. You can usually find a way in by looking at "plat" maps.... they'll show you little thin pieces of public land that sometimes don't get bought up when a piece of property is sold and nobody ever thinks about them because they're so odd shaped or small.... It might take a GPS to stay on public land but who knows, you might just find a secret access that everyone else has overlooked. Garyfish is right, my first post was in jest, but I've always wondered what the hunting would be like in little landlocked pieces of public ground.... 8)
 

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Check with local city governments if at the time of acquisition or applying for a building permit if the land owner had to provide a right-of-away or access point. I know a guy in Summit County who put his house right at the mouth of a very steep canyon but in order to do so had to allow public an access to the canyon. It is all documented but 15 years latter he would never admit that to any one asking and has hastled me for taking game out the bottom of the canyon. I threatened to make his agreement with the city known to every scout troop and hunter in Utah if he hastled me again and he has never said a word since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have looked into a Helicopter but the law says I would have to be droped off two days before the hunt starts and two days past the end of the hunt. When I asked about the meat going bad because I would have no way to keep it cool I was informed that if it spoiled then I would be ticked for wasting the game.
Its not a matter of walking around the land to get to it, its that I have a right to the land!! Read the LAWS and you tell Me how you read it

Still no one has answerd the QUESTIONS??

The director of the Division of Forestry, Fire, and State Lands, in conjunction with the Wildlife Board, may restrict or limit public use of leased parcels of sovereign lands for hunting, trapping, or fishing:
(1) upon the petition of the affected lessee;
(2) after a public hearing; and
(3) upon a determination that unrestricted public use for hunting, trapping, or fishing substantially interferes with the primary activities authorized by the lease.

Someone will say leased land or restrict or limit I dont want to play word games I just want to find out the answers to the questions that I have asked. If you dont know then say you dont know! Going further into the laws if its shut down for a certian reason (I.E. hunting-Gravel Pit) then its shut down for hunting or a gravel pit for everybody not just the public.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
GaryFish said:
This may be splitting hairs on this one so I'll try to be careful. But publically owned land (Forest Service, BLM, State Lands) may be closed to public access. We do not have a "right" to these lands. There are terms upon which we may use these lands, but it is not a "right" as we understand that term as it is used in the constitution. ("Right to keep and bear arms;" "right of the people peaceably to assemble;" "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures;" etc......)
GaryFish, :D my FRIEND we do have a right to these lands read the laws!!I just didnt pull what I wrote today out of thin air!!
 

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elk22hunter said:
GaryFish said:
Perhaps an appropriate analogy - Say you live at the end of the cul-de-sac. Behind your house is the elementary school. It would be a nice short-cut to let all the kids on your street walk through your yard to school every day. But instead, they have to walk back down the street, one block over, and back up to the school - essentially tripling the distance they have to walk. They have every "right" to get to school. But you don't have to let them across your yard to get there.
Most excelent post Fish man!

I think that you should go into the Analagy business and whether you do or don't, you should at least post your statement once a month as that seems to be how often the subject comes up.
That is actually an inadequate anaolgy because we are talking about landlocked public land. The school kids still have a way to get to school by taking the paths provided to them. The landlocked public lands may have no way to get to them and therefore the landowner is blocking access to them in full.
 

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I know we are in a different state, but in Wyoming, the methane drilling companies had to acces spots that were blocked by private land, or on private land that the land owner did not own the mineral rights to. Guess what happened, the drilling rigs barged right through their land and even started drilling on their land. The landowners tried to file suit against this and lost. They had to provide an easement, and if they didn't own the mineral rights, their land got drilled on and had pumps and pump houses put on them. many of the landowners were mad, but once the checks for many grand, sometimes hundreds of grand a year rolled in for having to deal with the methane rigs, they were more than happy to comply.

I know this is a different scenario, but I need to see court descisions before I would just roll over and assume the landowner can block me from public lands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Nibble Nuts said:
I know we are in a different state, but in Wyoming, the methane drilling companies had to acces spots that were blocked by private land, or on private land that the land owner did not own the mineral rights to. Guess what happened, the drilling rigs barged right through their land and even started drilling on their land. The landowners tried to file suit against this and lost. They had to provide an easement, and if they didn't own the mineral rights, their land got drilled on and had pumps and pump houses put on them. many of the landowners were mad, but once the checks for many grand, sometimes hundreds of grand a year rolled in for having to deal with the methane rigs, they were more than happy to comply.

I know this is a different scenario, but I need to see court descisions before I would just roll over and assume the landowner can block me from public lands.
[color=#FF0000]Thanks Nibble Nuts for your help. Like the name[/color].
 

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Is there a specific piece of property you are referring to Tinez?
 

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There are hundreds of roads that go through Private Property to gain access to Public Property. The State and Counties determine which roads are legitimate to use for public access. Maybe if we knew what specific area you are talking about, we could be of more assistance.
 
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