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Another Draw head-scratcher

1846 Views 11 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Old Fudd
So we all know about the odd way the UDWR allows people to obtain GS deer permits as their second choice, and keep/build points, ahead of people applying for the permit as their first choice.

So here is another head scratcher and Rule which makes no sense to me--

The UDWR is currently excluding 60% of the youth from obtaining Management Buck "Bonus"permits on the Henry Mtns and Pauns hunts. (Bonus Permits- 50% of total permits are given to the highest point holders)

Here is how it works--

The Youth Rule states:
If you’re 13 years old—and you’ll be 14 by Dec. 31, 2015—you can also apply for limited entry, once-in-a-lifetime or CWMU permits in the public drawing.

The Management Deer Rule States:
Thirty percent of the management buck deer permits are available to hunters who’ll be 17 years of age or younger on July 31, 2015

Applicant A turns 14 on December 31, 2012.
Applicant B turns 14 on January 1, 2013.

Year.....Applicant A.....Applicant B.....Age at July 31 the following year
2012.....1st point........Not eligible..............14
2013.....2nd point........1st point.................15
2014.....3rd point........2nd point................16
2015.....4th point........3rd point.................17

So when applying for a Management Deer Permit in 2016, as both applicants are 17 before July 31, Applicant A will be eligible for the “Bonus” allocation because he/she has 4 points. Applicant B only has 3 points and is not eligible for the “Bonus” allocation of permits. Applicant B will never be eligible for the “Bonus” allocation because he/she will be disqualified from the youth permits the following year due to being 18 on July 31st.

In other words, 15% of the the Management Deer tags each year are reserved for youth who were born during 5 months of the year (Aug-Dec). Those born the other 7 months (Jan-July) have no chance at those permits due the Rules being written in a way which alienates 60% of the youth in that age group each year.

The easy fix would be to not give bonus tags to youth-- issue permits as a luck of the draw, the "Random" permits in the draw. Or you could choose to simply make it the rule that Youth "Bonus" tags are awarded at the 3 point level rather than the 4 point level- this would allow every youth a chance at the "Bonus" permits.

I realized this as my son and I looked at the odds for the Mgt Tags. I don't even want to look at how they allocate the rest of the "youth" permits. I tend to wonder why they make it so hard....
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I like the cutoffs to be just behind me. Thx

You have to have a cutoff somewhere.
Perhaps based on a calendar year and not a partial year?
Since the hunting season doesn't happen all year, the points should apply for the year, meaning all 14 year olds on Janurary 1 live by the same rules. Or 14 during when you apply, or 14 when you hunt. There are a bunch of ways to do it and it isn't hard to make it fair.
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I sincerely get the impression that the DWR and/or WB does not put much serious thought into some of these drawing rules when they are drawn up. It is what it is, but the real criticism lies in that they are so slow to recognize the problems and fix them.
I sincerely get the impression that the DWR and/or WB does not put much serious thought into some of these drawing rules when they are drawn up. It is what it is, but the real criticism lies in that they are so slow to recognize the problems and fix them.
And that right there is why I always like "surgical" fixes to problems vs the kneejerk reaction of redesigning/implementing a new system which isn't fully thought out and has as many new issues as the old system they were trying to fix.

I figure anyone who has kids in the 40% will like the rule to exclude the 60%. haha. What a decision if someone has kids in both windows. You guys can see where my kids' birthdays fall.

I do agree with Torowy. But how about not having 2 conflicting cutoff dates.
I am not a fan of all the youth programs. But since they are there, I will let my kids do all that they can. I have 4 boys, my oldest is 11 and his Bday is in Sept, so he is good as far as the example goes. Why not make sure the youth all hunt at least 1 OIL hunt, 1 LE elk, 1 LE deer, and 1 GS deer and GS elk and see what they like the best. Then when they turn 18, and dont care to hunt because its too hard, they wont return.
I know the horse is dead and been beat to powder by now, but I never had any of these youth programs growing up. ITS the responsibility of the parents to get the kids out there and ENJOY hunting, even with out a tag.
For example, last night I was talking to my friend from Nevada who has a late bull tag out there. As we were talking, he invited me to come out and help if I could. My son was listen to the conversation. At the end, my son asked, "Dad, can we go help Sean on his elk hunt, that sounds fun!" He loves to be out there, even if its not MY TAG.
I understand that not all kids are like that. Me and my brother are polar opposites. But I guess we have to try and do something to get the kids out there, right?
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Management hunts sure are a different breed for sure. I also learned that they reserve 30% of the tags for Senior hunters. I would love to do a management hunt but the odds keep me from putting in for it since 60% of the tags are reserved to ages that I don't qualify for.

(ii) 30% of management buck deer permits in each unit are reserved for youth hunters.
(iii) Bonus points shall be used when applying
(iv) Any reserved permits remaining and any youth applicants who were not selected for reserved permits shall be returned to the management buck deer drawing.
(3) Senior
(a) For purposes of this section "senior" means any person 65 years of age or older on the opening day of the management buck deer archery season published in the guidebook of the Wildlife Board for taking big game.
(b) Senior applicants who apply for a management buck deer permit
(i) will automatically be considered in the senior drawing based upon their birth date.
(ii) 30% of management buck deer permits in each unit are reserved for senior hunters.
(iii) Bonus points shall be used when applying.
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I think the point about getting out makes sense but the issue of hunting in Utah is trying to truly get away and not run into or be run over by all the other hunters. It actually isn't near as fun when all you see are 4 wheelers and knuckleheads (not suggesting one goes with the other). If you really want an awesome experience get kids close to animals. The challenge is with limited tags you try to get one and you just want a fair playing field. You don't want constant change. You don't want people without LE tags coming into those areas and ruining your hunt. The creation of the LE tag messes with the whole experience in some ways. But if we must have that system, make it equitable.
If you turn 71 by next Archery season. Automatic Tag? Hell I think thats a great idea. After all how many more sunsets does a guy have?
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