Utah Wildlife Forum banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am posting this to try & find out if anyone else feels like I do. It seems as though the muzzle loader has turned into a modern weapons hunt. It was first started as a traditional type hunt in the primative area. Now it sems as though all it's just an early hunt with modern weapons that meet the basic discription. So I feel like if thats the case why not include antique weapons in the same hunt. I am not talking about replecas, but actual guns that were made before 1898. Please reply with your thoughts thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,667 Posts
The hunt would have to be called something different, like "pre 1900 era weapons hunt" or something like that. But you are right, the muzz hunt has become something I don't think the DWR expected. Not that it's bad, it just has evolved into what it is.
As for your question. I think a hunt using weapons which have to use bullets loaded by hand, with black powder and a ball or bullet, in either a metal case or paper case wouldn't be a bad idea. I would keep the muzzleload hunt separated from this type of hunt however.
I could quickly see that the modern methods of hunting would rapidly degrade this hunt as it did the muzzleload hunt. And it would become just another "one bullet in the gun at a time" hunt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
Those pesky inlines...
Despite the appearance of modern inline muzzleloaders - they are still limited to a very slow muzzle load for the 2nd shot and extremely arching trajectory, even with sabots - just like the old Hawkins etc. Their advantage may really lie in ease of cleaning, and the fact that they feel like your centerfire rifle and most have slightly better iron sights. Those on this forum that are good with a traditional Hawkin can easily equal a good inliner according to their own testimony. Their issue seems to be more with PERCEPTION than actual fact and I sure don't feel like the inlines perform anything like my modern rifle.
Sooo...
The DWR's main concern in our current muzzleloader hunt was to decrease hunting pressure during the rifle hunt and spread the hunt out, NOT to make a "Daniel Boone" hunt. They wanted it to appeal to more people than traditionalists for this very reason, so they moved the season from Nov to Sept and they recognize that the inlines are popular with run-of-the-mill hunters who want less fuss and the feel of their bolt action rifles, and don't want the perceived hassle of traditional guns - and thus increase muzzleloader license sales to their target management goals.

Yes it would be FUN to hunt with cartridge rifles of the black powder era - I would assume charged with black powder perhaps, or maybe not? Ask any 1886 Winchester lever owner or Trapdoor Springfield guy. But alas, they really perform just like any modern repeating rifle, but with more trajectory and less range and equal lethality and reasonably quick follow-up shots. People still hunt with the 1894 Winchester .30-30 don't they? And this round is not much different than some of the big bore black powder cartridge rifles although perhaps flatter shooting, if not longer in range. Some of the Sharps replica BPCR shooters could sit across the canyon and outdo an average 7mm Maggie shooter!
Another factor (the "inline" factor) is that I could use a 1896 Swedish Mauser bolt action chamber for the flat-shooting 6.5 Swede round and other than optics and weight/length be back in the modern rifle era.
And how can you limit it to originals which are extremely collectible and thus EXPENSIVE when the replica is functionally the same? Do we hunt with original muzzleloaders?
So those who want to use their black powder era cartridge weapons can carry them during the rifle hunt, but, as fun as it sounds, a specific hunt catering to these 19th century weapons would be a can of worms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If the main objective is to spread out the hunter numbers then it would seem that the type of weapon used is a moot point. I am not here to argue the merits of the differences of the types of weapons just to point out that it would be a nice addition to the early hunt. But i could also point out that the modern inline weapons could also be used on the rifle hunt. Pennsylvania has only two types of hunts, rifle & flintlock. Thanks for listening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,245 Posts
Antique weapons are a blast to use. I hunted for many years using only vintage Marlin and Winchester rifles in the normal rifle season and have taken both deer and elk(only the 45-90 for elk) with 30-30,.32Win, .32-40, .38-40, 44-40, .38-55 (my favorite), 45-70, and 45-90. I'll tell you right now that these old boys are vastly superior to muzzleloading rifles of any kind for hunting. Now I'm not talking ballistically or accuracy necessarily, but overall ease of use and getting that offen needed second shot off...give me my old lever action anytime. Even though I am a big lover of these old guns, they do not belong in the catagory with muzzleloads and I don't think they should be allowed in that hunt.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
96 Posts
The only thing I have to say on this subject is yes it was The corny kind of daniel boone people who lobbied the state to create the original primitive weapon primitive area hunt.
Groups like the Mountain men of utah and such.
When it was origanlly introduced it was kept to the wilderness area of the uintahs.
Meaning just horses and foot traffic.
It was a novelty hunt as much as anything meant to give the smokepolers a chance to hunt without everyone else. Herd management was not the issue as much as it is today.
It was originally the same with the bow hunt.
They have both evolved.
Companies have seen great new markets to take advantage of in both fields with new technology.
Im not saying that is a bad thing.
But I would like to see a hunt that is along the lines of some of our surounding states.
Im sure I'll get flamed for this because that's how it usually goes.^^^^ :lol:

I do agree that the black powder era cartridge hunt issue would be a massive can of worms indeed.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top