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If that's the case then maybe that would be described as thought provoking debate.

My point with these threads are that things aren't black and white. If people objectively look at laws or the reasoning behind them they should be able to pass the sniff test in that they are reasonable and have been applied appropriately. I don't give laws against hunting much leeway. The law is the law but it should make sense and not be arbitrary.
I think thoughtful disagreement is a great forum asset.

The struggle I have with Moosemeat's posts are they don't present as genuinely held ideas so much as antagonistic trolls. Just look to his grievance politics post earlier. When you wantonly create and then disregard stereotypes of fellow hunters (like "I use to think it was the new flatbrim generation that was the problem. The last few months I’ve started to realize many from middle aged hunters that’s the real issue") then it's tough for me to see anything good faith in what they contribute.

Same goes for writing off people with historically loaded misogyny like "get their panties in a wad", except it also helps highlight why so few women are on this forum.
 

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The struggle I have with Moosemeat's posts are they don't present as genuinely held ideas so much as antagonistic trolls. Just look to his grievance politics post earlier. When you wantonly create and then disregard stereotypes of fellow hunters (like "I use to think it was the new flatbrim generation that was the problem. The last few months I’ve started to realize many from middle aged hunters that’s the real issue") then it's tough for me to see anything good faith in what they contribute.
Okay, boomer!





Sorry...couldn't resist.
 

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I think thoughtful disagreement is a great forum asset.

The struggle I have with Moosemeat's posts are they don't present as genuinely held ideas so much as antagonistic trolls. Just look to his grievance politics post earlier. When you wantonly create and then disregard stereotypes of fellow hunters (like "I use to think it was the new flatbrim generation that was the problem. The last few months I’ve started to realize many from middle aged hunters that’s the real issue") then it's tough for me to see anything good faith in what they contribute.

Same goes for writing off people with historically loaded misogyny like "get their panties in a wad", except it also helps highlight why so few women are on this forum.
I contribute 0%, I have 0 experience and have no first hand knowledge about anything hunting or wildlife related, particularly utah related. My scenarios or questions have no probability of happening on public or private land in utah. I have witnessed nothing and haven’t ever talked to a wildlife officer in person regarding anything related to hunting or tactics used to take protected wildlife. Now that we’ve cleared that up, carry on. I’ll be here just taking shots in dark and strictly spitballing, in hopes something sticks.
 

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Wait a minute. Was baiting big game for hunting legal in Utah up until this year? I just assumed it was legal to bait for deer or elk in any state.
 

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What is everyone's general feelings towards it? I don't think I would ever do it and even though it's widely excepted for bear hunting I don't think I would.

I just grew up hunting in Illinois where it wasn't legal and my family always looked down on it.
 

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My general feeling is it is illegal, so I won’t do it. I’m not going to worry too much about what others do.
 

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What is everyone's general feelings towards it? I don't think I would ever do it and even though it's widely excepted for bear hunting I don't think I would.

I just grew up hunting in Illinois where it wasn't legal and my family always looked down on it.
Illinois? Like the place it’s illegal to dump a pile of corn and hunt over it? But it’s legal to hunt over a corn field or food plot? That Illinois?
 

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Illinois? Like the place it’s illegal to dump a pile of corn and hunt over it? But it’s legal to hunt over a corn field or food plot? That Illinois?
Yup, that one!!! I know that scenario is kinda silly, but I haven't heard of anyone baiting there with corn or something else that's grown as a crop. It would be a benefit though... The big ones stay down in the bottoms in the thick stuff and only visit the corn fields at night. So unless you're hunting a really large private area with very little pressure, you're not gaining much by hunting a cornfield unless you're just after any deer.

Corn, apples, salt block, etc would attract some decent bucks if stuck down in the bottoms.

Most people will just plant a food plot of 5 acres or so of some highly desirable food in a well covered area, if they're on their own property.

It's an entirely different hunting world there!
 

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So unless you're hunting a really large private area with very little pressure,
pretty sure that just described the entire state! ;)

Isn’t most of Illinois “private” hunting? I’ve never hunter the state, but I have drove through it, and it looked pretty private to me. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I’m pretty confident there’s some apple, corn or ‘other’ piles out in those bottoms behind several locked gates that no one except a select few know about. Wouldn’t be shocked to find a treestand or blind within view of them either


Baiting has its place and purposes in big game management and hunting. If you’re against baiting, try “hunting” Texas some time. Bait is the only way to hunt some of that country. It’s so thick, you’d never kill anything without it. Lots of land owners use bait piles to cull certain animals, thin down doe numbers or manage hogs. Both on high and low fence operations. Is it needed in utah? Probably not. Was it effective in utah? For the most part, no. Maybe in certain areas on certain species. Will it keep certain animals from getting killed? No. Will it stop or slow the spread of cwd? No
Much like hunting alfalfa fields in Utah is still legal. Imagine that!
A Tactic that largely caters to the private land hunter, screwing the public general hunter, again. Imagine that!
 

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pretty sure that just described the entire state! ;)

Isn’t most of Illinois “private” hunting? I’ve never hunter the state, but I have drove through it, and it looked pretty private to me. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I’m pretty confident there’s some apple, corn or ‘other’ piles out in those bottoms behind several locked gates that no one except a select few know about. Wouldn’t be shocked to find a treestand or blind within view of them either


Baiting has its place and purposes in big game management and hunting. If you’re against baiting, try “hunting” Texas some time. Bait is the only way to hunt some of that country. It’s so thick, you’d never kill anything without it. Lots of land owners use bait piles to cull certain animals, thin down doe numbers or manage hogs. Both on high and low fence operations. Is it needed in utah? Probably not. Was it effective in utah? For the most part, no. Maybe in certain areas on certain species. Will it keep certain animals from getting killed? No. Will it stop or slow the spread of cwd? No

A Tactic that largely caters to the private land hunter, screwing the public general hunter, again. Imagine that!
Yes most of it is. But there's a large chunk down south that was my favorite place to be called Shawnee NF. There's some monsters in there if you can find them.

Most of the private hunting in Illinois that people think about is huge tracts that are managed for big bucks. But I think that's the exception rather than the rule, at least where I grew up. My family farm is 200 acres, where about 40 is CRP and 40 is winter wheat or something like that. We packed 7 or 8 hunters into that every shotgun season and all the 40-200 acre private tracts around us did the same. So even though there are big see and a lot of deer there, they're so heavily pressured and smart that hunting for a big one isn't that easy.

I agree baiting has it's place.... Wild hog hunting? Yea I would bait them
 

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"Has it's place" is completely subjective. What are the traditions? How much public land? How large are the herds in relation to the number of hunters? How much do the costs of the human-wildlife conflicts add up to? Etc. Etc. Etc.

Ultimately what "has it's place" is what is either legislated by the state or the wildlife board. Despite what some people may think there isn't an objective standard by which the science dictates policy. Subjective and competing values always factor into the equation in creating whatever balance the citizens, agencies and legislature define. And that will always be sloppy and imperfect from a given number of stakeholders. There will always be conflict about those things within the hunting community not to mention amongst those in the state at large.

Per Utah...I think its a great change for the better. Others disagree. Those who disagree can try to repeal the new laws. It won't be easy but laws aren't immutable. I'm guessing it will be refined over time. Though I'm not sure the perceived loop holes are actually loop holes. And I wouldn't recommend testing the waters unless you want to risk paying out some legal fees and potentially some hefty fines. But at the end of the day I'd have no problem watching the state try to prosecute anyone caught breaking the laws under such bad faith approaches. If nothing else the spirit of the law is clear and most hunters know it.
 
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