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First, let me say I'm sorry to hear about your wife, dementia is a terrible thing for everyone involved.

Back to the topic, trying to prevent other tragedies. As I pointed out before a purely mental health approach would be cumbersome, expensive and inefficient. Alzheimer patients do not, as a rule, commit mass murder. Many on the Right cry out "Mental Health" when these things happen. It's a dodge, a deflection. The very simple fact is that these mass shooting occur because of the nexus between mental illness and "assault weapons". Both are required, neither one alone produce these tragedies. No need to screen the entire population, only those who wish to purchase these weapons need to undergo strict scrutiny. Nobody else. If a waterfowler wants to go to a store and buy an SBE III, no problem. If a big game hunter wants to buy a bolt gun, feel free. If a pimply-faced 19 yo kid wants to buy an AR, pay attention. FBI background check. Home interview by local LEO, including anybody who lives in the home. Guarantee safe storage insofar as possible. Pay the $200 fee. These measures alone would likely prevent these people from even trying to make a purchase. One alternative is a ban, which didn't work before and there's no reason to think it will work now. To have any chance it would have to include guns in circulation, and that is not going to happen. Another is to say nothing can be done, maintain the status quo. In which case the shootings will continue unabated, so brush up on your "Thoughts and Prayers" spiel. The last option is to come up with something better than the above alternatives, and as shown on this thread, there's no interest in doing so.
I respectfully disagree, I don't think it's a dodge to believe it's a primarily a mental health issue. But you are entitled to your views as are others. God Bless
 

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Almost every policy change benefits some groups and is detrimental to others. That's often unavoidable. That's where the "greater common good" concept comes in. There is no way to implement any form of gun control without some cost to current or future owners. These things are all a risk/reward calculation. In this case, is the cost of reclassifying semiautos worth the reward calculated as lives saved? I think the general public wants gun control, a poll in March showed 65% of Americans want tougher laws. When smoking was banned in public places, were smokers inconvenienced? Was the greater common good served?
You simply don’t understand the constitution with comments like this. Was smoking a constitutional right?

The rights granted in the constitution exist for the very reason to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. The constitution and the individual rights granted therein simply are not concerned with the greater good. They are rights possessed and protected individually, not collectively for the greater good. I assure you that if we removed the provisions of the 4th amendment we could do a ton of things that would fall in “the greater good” category for society. We could save way more lives and protect public safety than any gun control measure ever could dream, but that’s not how our constitutional democratic republic works.

I have not read every page in this thread, but I’ve seen you say nobody has told you how to improve your proposal. That’s not true. I have in this very thread, and have in more than one conversation in the past as well. I’ve even told you where it would fail constitutionally. You just choose to not listen. Which is your right, but don’t say it’s been crickets. It hasn’t been. You’re going to have to take handguns out.

There is room for “reasonable regulation” by the government of firearms. We (the collective “we,” although I’m guessing you and I would not either) will never be able agree on what is reasonable.
 

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So, as per the Republican playbook, there are now calls for more mental health resources 'across all levels of government". Quoting Republican Senator Todd Young:


No mention of gun control. Of course. There's only been 47 mass shootings in the US in the last month. No biggee, let's do mental health. After all, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". "The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". "Arm the teachers, harden the schools". "From my cold, dead hands!" "Thoughts and prayers". "Sincerely". Repeat ad nauseum.
 

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Looks like the Red Flag law in Indiana failed because the prosecutors didn't think they had enough time to gather the evidence to guarantee winning the case in court. The law apparently has tight timelines and constraints on evidence which made success uncertain, and the authorities were afraid that losing the case could backfire:


RPO's on a state-by-state can be effective in suicide prevention, but will not address the problem of mass shootings. We need a national solution to mass shootings, something clear, simple, elegant and effective. The best way to reduce human error is to implement simple, clear policies and procedures. Maybe something like reclassification, which, by the way, would pay for itself.
 

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I saw an interview the other night with Sim Gill talking about the Indianapolis shooting. Four of the Fedex victims were Sikh, and Sim is as well. I have reached out to his office about my proposal, we'll see what if anything happens. I was advised on this thread to reach out to my congressman, shop it around, etc. I did, but never heard back from John Curtis, my representative. Lee is a lost cause, of course, and I have not been optimistic about Romney. Watch this space.
 

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There's a powerful animated short film on Netflix regarding mass shootings called, "If Anything Happens I Love You".
 

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Not sure how the above is pertinent to the discussion. To quote George W. Bush after Trump's inaugural speech, "That was some weird sh*t."
 

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Guess it takes a true patriot to get it. Sorry.
 

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Guess it takes a true patriot to get it. Sorry.
"Patriot". You guys keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Credit Inigo Montoya.

 

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Thanks for proving my point
 

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So, have you been vaccinated? It's the patriotic thing to do.
Yep!

But being concerned that my post had nothing to do with the OP why would you ask something like this?

Since you didn't seem to understand what the song had to do with the OP I will try to explain. Gun control and gun banning goes against the constitution, tyranny can lead to revolution or civil war. In the chorus of the song it calls for down with the traitors:
The Union forever,
Hurrah! boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors,
Up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys,
Rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom.

Which I feel anyone going against the constitution is.

Now I have a few questions for you.
1 - Would you defend and protect President Trump with your life? (I would)
2 - Would you defend and protect President Biden with your life? (I would)
3 - Have you ever served in the military or taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States? It's the patriotic thing to do. ( I have, heck my mother that was born in Germany migrated to the United States in the 40's after the war and became a US citizen took a similar oath to support and defend the constitution).
 
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Sounds like Paddler must be pissing in the pool again.

The phrase virtue signaling always makes me laugh though. Reality is most political posts are by definition "virtue signaling". It's only a bad thing though when the other side does it. I mean what's more of a virtue signal than flag waving to show one type of patriotism? The supposed insult of "virtue signaling" has to be one of the most vapid elements of negative partisanship there is around today.

Since we are talking about patriotism. I think when we are all honest we know there is more than one way to show pride and commitment to a country or it's principles. I'm guessing Paddler's post tried to narrowly definite it, hence the change in conversation. I support our veterans and troops but I'll never serve in the military. I don't fly a flag (for very historically accurate reasons that align with my other values) but I support those who do. I show patriotism by voting, by respecting governmental outcomes that don't go my way but are constitutionally fair/proper, supporting my community, etc.

The older I get the more I believe one of the most patriotic things I can do is support a sort of "confident pluralism" that a democratic republic strives for in its ideals. I understand and support how others will celebrate their patriotism differently. Hopefully we can get back to a place of respecting that sort of lived difference before we tear apart our country because we perceive those on the right or left as our existential enemies.

*And I also would never put my life on the line for any president. They are a figurehead. The idea and principle lives on without them. I dare say the question is inverted; the president should know they may sacrifice their own life when taking office to protect the republic and it's citizens.
 

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Sounds like Paddler must be pissing in the pool again.

*And I also would never put my life on the line for any president. They are a figurehead. The idea and principle lives on without them. I dare say the question is inverted; the president should know they may sacrifice their own life when taking office to protect the republic and it's citizens.
This is understandable as you also said that you would never serve in the military which is also understandable.

Part of the military oath is to protect your commander in chief, The President, whether you agree with his values or not or if you like him or not. I didn't rescind that oath when I was discharged.

As for paddler I was willing to serve to protect his rights to have and express his opinion. I am intrigued by his passion even though I don't agree with all he says.

As for virtue signaling, I was not trying for that but giving paddler an idea of where my patriotism comes from.

But again we are straying from the OP for which I apologize.
 

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Sorry for confusion, the virtue signaling was a critique of Dallan's interjection.

I also better understand your question so thank you for that clarification. I think that this is one of the true benefits of our country, ie we can approach issues differently and coexist. I actually come from a military family and was encouraged by one of the veterans not to volunteer. They knew me and understood my contribution was elsewhere. Over the years I've really come to understand the sacrifice my family members made and how novel their recommendation was at the time. I'm grateful to inherit a concept of patriotism that is so respectful of such difference. I haven't always vocalized it well but it's humbling to see the range of ways people support and protect their country.

To the topic....given the context of protecting 2A, would you consider Scalia a patriot or traitor? I ask as he was a diehard conservative who helped tailor the modern understanding of the individual right to bear arms but he also wrote clearly that gun control can be constitutional. I try to understand people's take on that as I try to sincerely navigate what appears to be a razor's edge of this issue socially but our constitutional history shows we have more room to both protect liberty and pass legislation. I'm vulnerable though as my understanding and preferences have changed significantly over the last 2 decades and assume they can again.
 

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To the topic....given the context of protecting 2A, would you consider Scalia a patriot or traitor?
I don't know him well enough to say either way. I don't think that one is a traitor just because he/she is not a patriot.
I think that Scalia did the job he had to the best of his ability. I have never heard of him doing anything treasonous.
Not liking something in the constitution or some law I don't feel makes you a traitor, if you don't like something I think you have every right in the world to do your best to change it. But, until it is changed I feel that it needs to be obeyed.

That being said there are times when laws might need to be broken such as: "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation".
 
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I show patriotism by voting, by respecting governmental outcomes that don't go my way but are constitutionally fair/proper, supporting my community, etc.
This quote from backcountry brings up an interesting point. Trump incited the insurrection on January 6th, 2021 in an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Charges have been brought against at least 540 members of that Trump mob, many of whom are using the defense that Trump told them to do it. Was Trump supporting the Constitution, or fulfilling his oath of office in doing that? You know, the part where he said, "I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." His attempts to undermine the election began well before November and continue to this day. Is attempting to undermine or overturn an election patriotic, or traitorous? Is Trump a patriot or a traitor? Is unconditionally supporting a traitor patriotic?

You referenced the Civil War, or, as it has been termed, the War of the Rebellion. Grant famously said, "There are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. And I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter and, I trust, the stronger party." He was talking about slavery, not gun control. If you're saying that people who support gun control are traitors, or that the 2A is absolute, not subject to restrictions, well, you'd be incorrect.
 
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