Utah Wildlife Forum banner

21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,955 Posts
Don't get an English Pointer. Al they will want to do is cover country and find birds. Not going to be a good fit for the OP. They are a specialized breed. Better to stick with a versatile breed--jack of all trades, master of none.
..... but a having a buddy along who won't spook the game, and won't run off and stay by me would be nice. Now, I know a lot has to do with the individual dog, and training; but any suggestions on breed?
Airborne...your spot on again. Lone Hunter wants a dog with a personality and one he can have tag along on a variety of outings. Nice thing with Pointers though, is when it runs off, you can just jump on KSL and get another for $100-200, so its not big deal. Didn't you say you were actually able to get your pointer to learn its name? :rotfl::rotfl::O||:

I think I'm just jealous.....good work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,245 Posts
Airborne...your spot on again. Lone Hunter wants a dog with a personality and one he can have tag along on a variety of outings. Nice thing with Pointers though, is when it runs off, you can just jump on KSL and get another for $100-200, so its not big deal. Didn't you say you were actually able to get your pointer to learn its name? :rotfl::rotfl::O||:
Ohh Hardy Har Har!!!

You know the funny thing is I have yet to see a breed that finds more birds, hunts as hard, and actually retrieves birds as well as English Pointers. Versatile guys are always talking smack about retrieve this and that and I have yet to hunt with one my pointers couldn't outperform.

Versatile dogs are great for the masses that do not actually get out and hunt very much. That's why guys that don't know any better love them..when you hunt birds 5 days a year i'm sure they are perceived as amazing!

For the sake of fun, I will lay out the breed characteristics of the more popular bird dogs for those uneducated:

English Points: Baddest of the Badass! For the super serious upland hunter who covers ground and hunts hard 50+ days a year. They find more birds and cover more country than all other breeds. EPs have more drive than brains. They are a specialized tool and not for everyone. But the few things they do are better than any other breed and only the best western upland hunters can handle the EP :grin:

Setters: Have a ton of drive as above but can turn the switch off and chill. Can't retrieve as well as a English pointer but they are probably better house dogs. They are the dog that older gentlemen that still hunt hard end up with--a guy who wants to cuddle with his dog yet still have a good hunting machine

GSP: Let's be honest, most American GSP's have had so much English Pointer bread into them that they are basically retarded English Pointers. Yeah they cover enough ground to find birds and do a good job but they lack style, drive, and distance but so do most upland hunters so they match up pretty well with each other. Your average guy who thinks he's serious and hunts 10 days a year will like the GSP although none of them retrieve as well as advertised.

Brittany: For the guy who has to get permission from his wife to have a bird dog. They look like mini Chewbacca's so if you enjoy watching short-legged furry haired mops run the hills go for it. Yeah they can run better than most people want to admit but they have little style and are more about having something that the wife can snuggle and you can take hunting sometimes.

Wirehairs/DD: An uglier, meaner bird dog you will not find. If I can find a wirehair owner that doesn't brag about how many neighborhood cats they have killed and retrieved to hand I would buy that man a cigar! They have no range, have too much fur to operate efficiently in anything over 10 degrees with snow and have webbed freakin feet. They are the pitbulls of the bird dog world and that says something. They can point a bird, and retrieve a duck so that makes them the $hit for the guy that does both upland and waterfowl a total of ten time a year in a good year. The pinnacle of the versatile world! Truly a master of nothing but hey they can kill a fox and retrieve a porcupine so that's cool!? The DD guys are the uppity snobs of this group-'don't call my DD a wirehair!'

Pudel Pointers: The latest flash in the pan of the versatile world. For people who want all the mediocre upland/water performance of a wirehair but without the meanness. You are going to spend $3,000 for a poor performing dog but hey it's nice and doesn't shed-again a perfect fit for the guy who hunts seldom and posts on forums a lot.

Labs: The waterfowl retrieving specialists. A well-bred lab is to the waterfowl world what the English Pointer is to the upland world. They are the best at their game. They are not going to be a good upland dog except for maybe pheasants but serious upland hunters don't like to hunt pheasants anyways. If you are a serious waterfowler a lab is where it's at. Be careful with breed choice as many non hunters breed these and there can be a big difference between a hunting lab and a back yard lab.

Deutsch Kurzhaar: I will add this for Josh even though he doesn't come on this forum. They are a fine pointing dog and I like his dogs but we both know he would kill more birds with an English Pointer. Some guys just like to 'be different'! :grin:

So there ya go:
If I found a breed that hunted upland better than the English Pointer I would switch in a heartbeat. But they perfected the ultimate upland bird dog long ago and it's the English Pointer!

Keep in mind fellas that I wrote this in jest and do not mean to offend…especially the chest puffing versatile guys-call off your dog so it doesn't bite me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,551 Posts
I needed a chuckle this morning, thanks for that Airborne!

But remember the rest of the saying, "A jack of all trades and master of none, but better than merely a master of one." ;)

And you might be able to pick up one of those brainless EPs for cheap, but the horse you need to keep up with it is gonna be spendy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,955 Posts
Hey....thats good! I was sitting on the couch drinking a Starbucks latte with my Pudelpointer (who has her Patagonia dog sweater on) watching CNN & reading your response. Started to type up a response, but the neighbor just called telling me my DD just ate her pet miniature service pig. Get back with you later....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,088 Posts
Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
Don't get an English Pointer. Al they will want to do is cover country and find birds. Not going to be a good fit for the OP. They are a specialized breed. Better to stick with a versatile breed--jack of all trades, master of none.
Yup. We have a Llwellian, which is basically an English Setter on steroids. That dog and I are not a good match. I've been trying to work with her again, and your right, this dog is breed for one thing: Flushing upland game birds. She has a mind of her own, and works independently. As it is, the only upland game bird I chase is Turkey's, so I have little to no use of a specialized dog. I haven't hunted pheasants, or quail since I was a kid, and I've only hunted chuckar's once. I'd do grouse, but that's during deer muzzy, so that ain't happening. The breed of this dog wasn't my choice, it was my wifes. Honestly, I'd have picked something else (like a Lab), if it were up to me; but it wasn't.

Airborne...your spot on again. Lone Hunter wants a dog with a personality and one he can have tag along on a variety of outings.
Yeah. The best canine partner I've had was a Border collie and Australian Sheppard mix. Only problem was, he was a herding dog, and that can sometimes be a problem. That said, he worked with me, that dog would read me like a book, and anticipate what I would want from him. He wouldn't stray too far, always kept me in sight, kept a good watch in camp, he was just a good boy. But.... He just couldn't contain himself if he saw a deer though. I have to wonder if I could have trained him to chase up small game, he'd probably have done it. But if he saw any large game animal, he'd chase it like a sheep. Funny as heck sometimes, but a problem other times.

EDIT:
Reading through this forum, I'm learning terms I didn't know existed, and I think what I was asking about, was probably out of place for this forum. What I'm looking for in a dog, probably doesn't exist; and it seems to me, the name of the game here is Upland, and it's not a game I play very often. I appreciate all the advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AF CYN

·
Member
Joined
·
1,666 Posts
I don't mind it too much, but a having a buddy along who won't spook the game, and won't run off and stay by me would be nice. Now, I know a lot has to do with the individual dog, and training; but any suggestions on breed?
If I take your meaning, then you are looking for a companion dog and not a hunting dog.

I would first look at a rescue which is probably going to be a mix.

I would look for a dog that does not have a hunting drive. Dogs with a hunting drive will tend to want to hunt.

I would look for a small to medium sized dog. A bigger dog will create more visible movement in the woods.
 

·
senior member
Joined
·
750 Posts
This discussion is of particular interest to me right now. I'm still trying to figure out if/when and what we will get to fill the hole left two years ago by my old boy (black lab) passing.

Keep the suggestions coming!
Consider these, I have a female lwellian and male Setter. "Moose" my male had the sweet old man attitude when he was 1 year old and still does. Daysee "Was" super high strung, the complete opposite. I got these dogs after my black lab and sheperd passed.

Great companion dogs, both of them are now pushing 16 so this might not be a good year :cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,812 Posts
I loved my Irish Setter. He was a smart "all senses" dog, meaning he'd stop to smell for birds, stop and listen for them... figure out where they would run to. He was a pheasant finding SOB for sure.

I once shot a rooster that ran down a muskrat hole on a ditch bank. My dog was furiously digging out the hole when a farmer stopped to watch. He belligerently said, "WhatchaHunt'n, muskrats?" Just then my dog comes up out of the hole with a very muddy mature rooster. I just nodded no and said "nope, pheasants". The guy looked bewildered at what he just saw happen.

Ah those were the days. Super friendly dogs too, good with kids and as a companion even if you dont hunt.

Not mine of course, he died in the early 90's... but mine looked alot like this one:


-DallanC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
Airborne, I loved your post thank you for the chuckle but I did not understand "serious upland hunters dont enjoy hunting pheasants anyway"?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,551 Posts
Airborne, I loved your post thank you for the chuckle but I did not understand "serious upland hunters dont enjoy hunting pheasants anyway"?
My guess is because pheasants don't really "behave" properly for pointing dogs and will run and run unlike wood****, grouse, or quail which typically hold nice and tight until flushed
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,865 Posts
I have a black lab and she is a very sweet dog. Great with the kids and loves to play.

She honestly isn’t a great hunter but retrieves well.

The one thing that drives me nuts about her though is how much she sheds in the spring and fall. It’s unreal. I had to buy a furminator brush to get the hair off her and then wash her like crazy. It’s the only way I can keep it under control.

Next dog I get... probably a lab. But a GSP has some appeal as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,812 Posts
My guess is because pheasants don't really "behave" properly for pointing dogs and will run and run unlike wood****, grouse, or quail which typically hold nice and tight until flushed
Thats not my experience with pheasants at all. Sure some run... but getting one to hold for a dog on point happens way more often.

My Setter would try and catch them at the flush. He got really good at it too... in fact if you saw him on point and acted like you didnt see him, walk past him... he'd catch the bird and bring it to us.

-DallanC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
Airborne, ah yes, the DK the upitty up snobs of the german shorthair world. 😉in all seriousness Josh has some nice dogs that seem to do the trick! I can’t wait to see what his new pup will do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
My guess is because pheasants don't really "behave" properly for pointing dogs and will run and run unlike wood****, grouse, or quail which typically hold nice and tight until flushed
Thats not my experience with pheasants at all. Sure some run... but getting one to hold for a dog on point happens way more often.

My Setter would try and catch them at the flush. He got really good at it too... in fact if you saw him on point and acted like you didnt see him, walk past him... he'd catch the bird and bring it to us.

-DallanC
Ain't no wild bird getting caught by a dog haha. Preserve and planted birds, yes. Those suckers stay put.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,812 Posts
Ain't no wild bird getting caught by a dog haha. Preserve and planted birds, yes. Those suckers stay put.
In thick brush? You bet your ass they can. Packouts seen my dog do it. I've never hunted anything but wild birds in my life.

Maybe you need better dogs 8)

-DallanC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,245 Posts
In thick brush? You bet your ass they can. Packouts seen my dog do it. I've never hunted anything but wild birds in my life.

Maybe you need better dogs 8)

-DallanC
Ya know this is braggin about something that a well trained dog wouldn't do right! :grin:

This is akin to seeing a mountain lion kill a big buck and you coming along, scaring the cat off and claiming the buck! Ya cheated!

It's the dog's job to point or flush the bird and your job to shoot it! That dog is taking away from your hunt--this would require some corrective training in my book but to each their own--I'm just mainly being an uppity pointer guy and flingin crap!:grin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,245 Posts
Airborne, I loved your post thank you for the chuckle but I did not understand "serious upland hunters dont enjoy hunting pheasants anyway"?
Pheasants are great and are a hoot to hunt but they are not a covey bird and they can be track stars sometimes--especially big wild roosters in the midwestern states. Sure, experienced pointers can handle pheasants and learn to work scent, cut off birds, and stick a pheasant with a beautiful point but all in all the serious upland hunters generally would prefer a covey bird (chukar, quail, huns) or a fine grouse or wood****.

It's fun to look down on a bird that can be effectively hunted in large massed army formations. Upland hunting is about the dog and the hunter, covering ground, working as a team. Be that as it may, a Dakotas/Kansas/Nebraska pheasant hunt is something that everyone should experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
Ain't no wild bird getting caught by a dog haha. Preserve and planted birds, yes. Those suckers stay put.
In thick brush? You bet your ass they can. Packouts seen my dog do it. I've never hunted anything but wild birds in my life.

Maybe you need better dogs


-DallanC
Well shoot! I've never had one hold super tight and I'm usually in thick stuff! But I also don't hunt pheasant much. Hopefully he's good as sniffing out roosters instead of hens 😉 I've got a German shorthair so I'm stuck with mediocrity 😂
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
Funniest thing I've read in a while Airborne. Good stuff!

I hope to be a serious upland guy one day but I love hunting wild pheasants so much I might not make it! Covey birds are fun and I love them, but pheasants in light grass light my fire. I especially enjoy finding them when they are tough to come by.

BTW Pointers are BA, but We all know setters rule!:grin:
I am going to bring up a pointer someday. I think it would be fun and challenging to try and train one. I'm not sure what I would do with all the extra time. No Burrs? How do you fill your afternoon?


Some Llewellyn guys are similar to DD guys.

Bret
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
@Airborne.
Gotcha, I understand what you are saying now.
I had a pointing lab for 14 years up until two years ago and I dearly loved phez hunting with him.
I miss him.
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top