Yeah, me too. For the most part, I really like what is in the bill. The only thing that bothers me about it is that legislators are circumventing the WB and RACs. I think it is a very dangerous precedent for hunters, the general public, and ultimately wildlife.
Big changes for cougars?
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The reason it seems odd to me is not that they had to make concessions to pass the senate; everyone took US history at some point so everyone here knows how that works. It’s that with so much outside support for the initial bill and a supermajority the senate decided to hold the bill hostage over cougars. That reeks of special interest and I suspect it’s because it seemed like the only chance to get that added. Knowing it wouldn’t stand up through the RAC or WB processes they snuck around it (yes I know they are allowed to do that). That sucks and is a lame move.
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Special interest as in the general public crying "the sky is falling" over a harsh winter that is sure to send Utah's mule deer herds plunging downward? When i say general public, I mean all the legislative representatives and their cronies / predecessors / constituents / special interest groups / hunters / internet forum experts / etc., that constantly ask for hunt closures, predator bounties, regulation changes, etc.
Shed hunting closure, predator extermination....I'm fully prepared to see an emergency closure on deer hunting in 2023 (and 2024?) coming in the next few months as this harsh winter continues. I can see the legislature forcing the DWR's hand...
I'm just glad I'm not a wildlife manager at this point.
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Then why didn’t the legislature make this move for any of the other harsh winters we’ve had for the past 60 years? Sandal’s comments were not specific to this years winter, just that he felt there are too many cougars and not enough are being killed (New bill brings worries over open season on hunting Utah cougars). This is interesting considering a significant number of the units in the state are already under unlimited harvest quotas.
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T-dubs -- our deer herds are in worse shape today than 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60 years ago. People (hunters, politicians) are getting desperate.
for how many years have we heard about how many predators prey on deer in Utah? What have Utah's deer herds done for the last 20 years? They continue to decline. The public is getting tired of seeing deer herds continue to decline, but refuse to look at the reality of mule deer in the west. Climate change and human sprawl are changing mule deer populations. Why hasn't the legislature done anything about deer hunting in past harsh winters? Because it's not their jurisdiction! Why are they doing stuff today? Because the whole country has lost their **** minds, and everyone in politics thinks they can do whatever they want -- so you get people with a little bit of power (or backing from people who think they have power), and they cross those lines and try to manage wildlife through legislation instead of through the proper governing agency.
you end up with shed hunting closures, trail camera laws, open season on cougars, and probably some additional hunting closures in the future.
Some of these things are good, and I support. But the road we're taking to get their? It could lead to a bad place...
for how many years have we heard about how many predators prey on deer in Utah? What have Utah's deer herds done for the last 20 years? They continue to decline. The public is getting tired of seeing deer herds continue to decline, but refuse to look at the reality of mule deer in the west. Climate change and human sprawl are changing mule deer populations. Why hasn't the legislature done anything about deer hunting in past harsh winters? Because it's not their jurisdiction! Why are they doing stuff today? Because the whole country has lost their **** minds, and everyone in politics thinks they can do whatever they want -- so you get people with a little bit of power (or backing from people who think they have power), and they cross those lines and try to manage wildlife through legislation instead of through the proper governing agency.
you end up with shed hunting closures, trail camera laws, open season on cougars, and probably some additional hunting closures in the future.
Some of these things are good, and I support. But the road we're taking to get their? It could lead to a bad place...
Or a number of interest groups have discovered that they can get more direct action from the legislature than to engage the RAC/WB and deal with the unpredictable results of the frequent clown show that sometimes is the WB? Not that this is overall reassuring in any way.
I agree. At least in theory, we can vote out reps when they don't do what we want, versus the unelected WB, but as a practical matter, with single party rule and limited palatable alternatives, I'm not sure the legislature is more responsive. (Although some grass roots movements sometimes suggest otherwise)
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Yet the government can’t encourage enough people to move and build homes up on the hill here fast enough. The Olympics coming to utah in 2002, destroyed utah and its future. From the life long citizens and their way of life, all the way to its wildlife. Nothing positive turned out from that deal.
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Utah's future was doomed before the Olympics.
They want manufactures so they give them tax incentives and they come, with the manufactures come people. With those people come more people, and then more.
I remember when BYU said that they were going to cap enrollment at 20,000 students, look at it now. I used to hunt coyotes, jack rabbits, and foxes out around Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs, now look at it. There used to be gaps between cities from the point of the mountain south to Santaquin, now it is one continues row of homes.
Where I live now the population was 650 people 30 years ago. Now it is pushing 10,000.
The one thing that never changes and that is change itself.
They want manufactures so they give them tax incentives and they come, with the manufactures come people. With those people come more people, and then more.
I remember when BYU said that they were going to cap enrollment at 20,000 students, look at it now. I used to hunt coyotes, jack rabbits, and foxes out around Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs, now look at it. There used to be gaps between cities from the point of the mountain south to Santaquin, now it is one continues row of homes.
Where I live now the population was 650 people 30 years ago. Now it is pushing 10,000.
The one thing that never changes and that is change itself.
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Do you remember the tail lights stretched bumper to bumper from Lehi to Ceder Fort come opener of the dove hunt? That was amazing.
Or the several miles of Goose Hunters on the side of the road bumper to bumper over at Fitzgeralds waiting the morning and evening flights of geese.
Those were the days.
-DallanC
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Let me see if I can reminisce.
I remember driving down HWY 89 from Ogden to Nephi on Memorial day roughly a 3 1/2 hour drive.
I remember driving Weber Canyon when it was a two lane road.
I remember when Harrison Blvd in Ogden turned in to dirt road at 36th street (where WSU sits today.)
I remember when they started I15. My wife remembers when it it cut through the family farm.
I remember my FIL selling his farm to the state for a collage campus.
I remember my wife grandparents selling land for a hospital.
I remember enjoying the hell out of the Olympics.
I remember people complaining about 2000,000+ deer tags.
What I don't remember is any good suggestion to prevent growth. And how that would effect the economy.
I remember driving down HWY 89 from Ogden to Nephi on Memorial day roughly a 3 1/2 hour drive.
I remember driving Weber Canyon when it was a two lane road.
I remember when Harrison Blvd in Ogden turned in to dirt road at 36th street (where WSU sits today.)
I remember when they started I15. My wife remembers when it it cut through the family farm.
I remember my FIL selling his farm to the state for a collage campus.
I remember my wife grandparents selling land for a hospital.
I remember enjoying the hell out of the Olympics.
I remember people complaining about 2000,000+ deer tags.
What I don't remember is any good suggestion to prevent growth. And how that would effect the economy.
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I remember all those good times including the opening of fishing season the first Saturday in June and the traffic jambs that it created from Heber to Strawberry. The bumper to bumper traffic in Daniel's and Spanish Fork Canyons along with wearing red during the deer hunts.
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You are giving away your age talking about Fitzgeralds Dallan!
I used to buy a trespass permit from them for Geese, Ducks, and Pheasants.
The permit was $50/yr.
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you gave me the best memories and saddest feeling all at once with that memory you drummed up.
Nailed it though
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I remember tacking up "NO TRESPASSING OR HUNTING WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION" signs every 50' on the family farm three Wednesday for the Saturday opener, then, hunting pheasants. Didn't cost me a single penny and it was the best hunting in the valley.
What I would give for our golden years of Pheasants back…
I kill a couple wild birds in Utah every year but nowhere close to the fun I had in the 80’s.
I travel north and east for Roosters once a year now but it is not an easy or cheap trip.
But worth every penny!
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We had good family friends who had 10,000 acres bordering the lake near the AF boat harbor, they'd let us hunt with them. It was jaw droppingly good pheasant hunting. I've seen years where opener started 8:00am and the entire group was limited out by 8:15am. Absolutely pinnacle of pheasant hunting IMO.
-DallanC
-DallanC
Yep, priceless memories.
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Same on the farm. The hardest part was trying to get the dogs out of the field. They wanted to hunt!
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