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Until funding is in place it is just another wish list.
I would love to see a list of accomplishments that are protecting the area since the original designation. So far all I've seen is increased usage driven by publicity. The threat of energy extraction is a moot point as no viable deposits exist as to regards to Bears Ears.
 

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Until they do this the right way it is just going to be a yo-yo game going back and forth when the administrations change.

Anybody know if the NRDC et al and 2 other consolidated lawsuits are still being stayed? I'm wondering if they'll ever proceed and have a ruling on executive authority to shrink monuments. I'm guessing not as most presidential administrations are pretty intolerant of reducing executive power.

I have no clue what the new era of land management will bring but the old one is dead. There is no way to foster bilateral buy-in across stakeholder groups for landscape scale projects in our current political environment. And my guess is we are years away from reaching the peak of the escalation and tension.
 

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Backcountry, I’m guessing those lawsuits all become moot once the executive action being challenged is no longer in place, and will be dismissed by the courts. If this administration wanted that answer (and I assure you it didn’t), it would have had to leave the prior challenged action in place and let the case make its way through the appellate process.
 

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Can either side get very excited about this, one way or the other? It will just get changed back when the "R"s return to power, and so on, and so on.......(assuming we still have a functioning democracy)

All these changes do is stoke the fires of outrage for the aggrieved side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Can either side get very excited about this, one way or the other? It will just get changed back when the "R"s return to power, and so on, and so on.......(assuming we still have a functioning democracy)

All these changes do is stoke the fires of outrage for the aggrieved side.
I disagree. Trump caused this mess by attempting to overreach the powers vested in the president by the Antiquities Act. Biden is just cleaning up one more mess created by the catastrophe that was the Trump presidency. The next Republican president, if there ever is one, should just leave well enough alone.
 

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Biden is just cleaning up one more mess created by the catastrophe that was the Trump presidency.
I am not a party person. I am very Ron Swanson with things.

I can confidently say that my life has not improved over 2021 due to any political things, and I can say the economy is substantially more complicated in the broad industries I deal with. It has been a negative in my opinion.

I don't know many people who had a bad 4 years unless they are easily offended or watch the news too much (which is basically if you watch partisan news at all).


That said, I agree this is a yoyo game. Government isn't good at managing anything, land isn't any different.
 

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Please keep your comments related to the outdoor issue. Thanks
 
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The threat of energy extraction is a moot point as no viable deposits exist as to regards to Bears Ears.
If that's the case, then why does any of it matter?

That being said, I'm happy to see the Escalante restored back to its original size. More public land protected from fences that say "no trespassing / hunting" are a good thing, in my opinion. Further, this should stop any talk of a new national park for a while. :)
 

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Further, this should stop any talk of a new national park for a while. :)
This is a good point. (for the next 3 years at least)

Although this action might embolden the "R"s to ramrod Stewart/Gobert NP through when the next administration shrinks things back down. It would be a lot harder to rescind a NP as opposed to the current monument status.
 

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Although this action might embolden the "R"s to ramrod Stewart/Gobert NP through when the next administration shrinks things back down.
Sometimes you get exactly what you ask for. In this case, I hope that never happens. But if the R's continue to fight the monument, then I think they will get just that -- the monument may shrink, or go away, and a NP will take it's place.


that's a "lose / lose" for all of us.
 

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If that's the case, then why does any of it matter?

That being said, I'm happy to see the Escalante restored back to its original size. More public land protected from fences that say "no trespassing / hunting" are a good thing, in my opinion. Further, this should stop any talk of a new national park for a while. :)
I agree on GSENM.

Per point, at least with BENM....there are multiple benefits. The obvious one is Increased historical recognition for regional tribes. Given our history that's not a minor issue.

That said most benefits are contingent on increased funding and personnel which is highly uncertain. The region has lost a ton of antiquities over the years and increased attention only exacerbates that problem. Without a long term funding package the place will remain vulnerable to administrative and congressional whims and vagaries. Hence my general conclusion.
 

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For so long I was anti monument and wanted it to be eliminated and return to what it once was.

Problem is, once designated the place is “on the map” and people are suddenly interested in it and want to see what all the hubbub is about.

For YEARS I wanted the monument rescinded and PBH kept telling me it wasn’t a good idea and that the State of Utah would piece-mill it out for money. Just like clockwork, Chris Stewart led the charge and started campaigning for mining rights etc. PBH was right, I was wrong.

Now my tune is quite different. I’d rather leave things as they once were prior to Zinke’s efforts.

The BLM conducted a survey about the reason people visited GSENM and the #1 response was “solitude”.

Yet Utah ran full steam ahead trying to dedicate a national park to put a rear dot on the map and draw more traffic, more pollution (noise, and literal), more Instagram influencers, more malarkey. Yeah, it would increase tax revenues etc. But at what cost? I can’t answer that.

Point being, I’d actually like things to go back to the way they were just to keep Utah’s grubby mitts off of it and from mortgaging our future.

HOWEVER I agree that the yo-yo back and forth is utter crap. It’s a pissin match through and through. Heaven forbid we just make a decision that’s right for the situation. TBH I feel like monuments are purely a legacy flex and can cause more harm than good. If the land is under BLM control, I’d prefer it stay that way for now until a better management philosophy can be implemented.
 

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The one thing about trying to ram through a national park is that you have to ram it through Congress, not just the White House. That's a dicey proposition in the best of times (everyone remember "I'm Just a Bill"?) and these aren't the best of times for bipartisan cooperation. If the Senate still has a filibuster, the Democrats will almost certainly use that to block a smaller park, and most in the GOP will not support a larger park. The Republicans will have the same kinds of troubles the Democrats are now having on spending: moderates will go for a park as a compromise against a larger monument, but the most conservative, anti-public land members will oppose a new park of any size. I suspect the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Park Act of 2025 would be sitting on Capitol Hill for quite a while.
 

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There's 100,000 acres of private land within the original BE boundary.

Do you think the property owners are going to be allowed to build McDonalds and Hotels on their land within the monument?

-DallanC
 

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Black's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
For so long I was anti monument and wanted it to be eliminated and return to what it once was.

Problem is, once designated the place is “on the map” and people are suddenly interested in it and want to see what all the hubbub is about.

For YEARS I wanted the monument rescinded and PBH kept telling me it wasn’t a good idea and that the State of Utah would piece-mill it out for money. Just like clockwork, Chris Stewart led the charge and started campaigning for mining rights etc. PBH was right, I was wrong.

Now my tune is quite different. I’d rather leave things as they once were prior to Zinke’s efforts.

The BLM conducted a survey about the reason people visited GSENM and the #1 response was “solitude”.

Yet Utah ran full steam ahead trying to dedicate a national park to put a rear dot on the map and draw more traffic, more pollution (noise, and literal), more Instagram influencers, more malarkey. Yeah, it would increase tax revenues etc. But at what cost? I can’t answer that.

Point being, I’d actually like things to go back to the way they were just to keep Utah’s grubby mitts off of it and from mortgaging our future.

HOWEVER I agree that the yo-yo back and forth is utter crap. It’s a pissin match through and through. Heaven forbid we just make a decision that’s right for the situation. TBH I feel like monuments are purely a legacy flex and can cause more harm than good. If the land is under BLM control, I’d prefer it stay that way for now until a better management philosophy can be implemented.
It's odd to me that people think yo-yoing is inevitable. It's not. Trump's attempt to reduce the monuments was unique to Trump, motivated to a great degree by his desire to destroy Obama's legacy. It's in his DNA, a very petty and mistaken belief that by denigrating others he makes himself look better, "Strong!". What he did had never been done before, rescinding a monument unliterally and against opposition just out of spite. I doubt it will happen again, unless we make the mistake of electing another malignant narcissist to the WH.

It's also important to call out our political leaders, state and federal, who are disappointed that the White House didn't "collaborate", seek a legislative solution. Obama gave that process as much time as possible, but it failed and would again. Obama responded to formal requests from the tribal council and waited till the waning days of his presidency in an effort to allow congress to act. Our representatives (Bishop) acted in bad faith, so Obama stepped in.

The monuments have seen increasing public support since their designation, a trend that will likely continue. Now we just need to fund them.
 
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