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So, this Gentleman from Florida has started a petition to ban coyote hunting in utah. And while I don't think he'll actually get it banned, it makes me wonder what on earth a Florida resident feels entitled to try to enact change on wildlife management more than halfway across the country. He currently has got over 10,000 signatures on this thing.

https://www.change.org/p/end-the-coyote-bounty-hunt-in-utah

So. I know we have some truly well spoken folks on this board. I'd love to see this Kevin Byrne get his email box flooded with INTELLIGENT retorts to his petition. Please keep in mind that foul language and death threats actually do more harm than good. But I'd be interested to see members engage this person. He currently has 28 petitions he's started to enact change in areas he's probably never stepped foot in. I wouldn't mind seeing us put our foot down on this one.
 

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A lot of the ARA's are from out of state. If you look at their Facebook profiles anyway. They like to argue on pro hunting pages and pages where people post pics of their harvests.
 

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How about we petition to ban liberals from posting petitions. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Either way, it might be worthwhile to put together a well written counter petition to send to Governor Herbert and the DWR. Get more signatures than they've already got.

I'm hald tempted to start a petition on that website, because apparently that's what the site is for, to petition for a ban on Kevin Byrne starting any more petitions. Just for fun.
 

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This is a good warning to the hunting community who take their privledges for granted. If we can't show respect for the animals we hunt and a use for hunting for management and conservation we are headed down paths like this. Keep things like this in the back of your mind when posting on Facebook and talking about the animals you harvest.

Remember only 10% of the population hunts, 10% of the population are avid anti-hunters, and 80% are the ones who support hunting as conservation and management. It isn't either 10% making the decisions. How we represent ourselves to that 80% is what will determine our fate. Show respect for the animals you hunt, sadly I don't think a lot of people understand that part. I cringe sometimes listening to people talk about the animal they killed like it was nothing or they don't care about the death involved with hunting. Will I apologize for hunting? No. But I won't stand with those who can't respect the wildlife they pursue and those who don't have compassion for the animals that died during their hunt. I don't care if that comes across as soft, we should all have a soft spot for the animals we harvest. I'm a hunter not a killer.
 

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Nothing like a plumber telling an electrician how to do his job.

Telling a western state how it should manages its resources from back East is just daft to say the least.
 

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Coyotes have always been an unprotected species in Utah. The state is full of hunters who are more then willing to play the part of coyote exterminator. Forget the stupid little bounty. If what I described in the first two sentences hasn't doomed the coyote population yet then not much else will unless we bring back the old M44 guns. Nobody needs to worry their silly little heads about the bounty wiping out the coyotes. His petition is a waste of time.
 

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...this Gentleman from Florida ..what on earth a Florida resident feels entitled to try to enact change on wildlife management more than halfway across the country. ...
Telling a western state how it should manages its resources from back East is just daft to say the least.
The great thing about this country is that our widlife is public. Each of us has a say. It doesn't matter where you live, our public resources are still public resources. It isn't weighted -- one person doesn't have a greater say than any other.

We also have a right to speak our minds.

If someone from Florida wants to speak out against coyote hunting in Utah, that's OK in my book.

If someone in Utah wants to speak out in favor of manatee hunting in Florida, that's also OK in my book.

petitioning a petition to petition the petition of another petition is stupid.

Are you guys really fearful that a petition from Florida might shut down coyote hunting in Utah? My goodness! Our wonderful governor Sherbert would never allow such a thing! Even with all the good science that supports facts stating that coyotes are NOT the issue (deer herd predation), our state continues to support coyote bounties!! What makes any of you think a petition from Florida would change this??

I love hearing the coyotes yipping at night at Bullfrog. Anyone want to go hunting?

Carry on.
 

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Don't know what your talking about. They took 90 dogs off the north end of monroe in a day from a chopper. The deer hunting has been the best in decades and there are rabbits like you wouldn't believe. Im pretty sure coyotes are meat eaters and they do in fact have an effect. Regardless of the 3 studies you anti predator hunter keep sighting.

Pro predator is about as anti hunting as you can get. Every critter killed by a natural predator is a critter a hunter can't kill. And anti hunters know it.
 

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oh come on IB. You seriously think that the deer and rabbits came back because 90 coyotes were removed? That it had nothing to do with mild winters and wet summers? What about the chest-high grass on the mountain -- is that a result of fewer dogs too?

Every critter killed by a natural predator is a critter a hunter can't kill -- but that's only half the story. In a compensatory situation that predator kill may result in more animals available for hunters to hunt (and kill). But you already know this.

Predators need management. They need hunting. We need to hunt them. Just like any other of our game animals, populations need to be managed. Nobody is arguing that. Management is necessary. Management is good. Killing dogs is good. But like anything else, when done in extreme it can be bad too.

so, just out of curiosity, what's going to happen to that rabbit population without their natural predators? They'll probably have a population crash due disease.

Maybe they should have only killed 89 dogs?
 

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Okay three guys are deceased and waiting at the pearly gate for a visit with Saint Peter.
The first one gets called up to the desk.

Saint Peter: What was your IQ when you lived?
1st deceased man: It was 160.
Saint Peter: Wow, a genius. Did you get your doctorate degree?
1st deceased man: Why, yes I did.
Saint Peter: Great, go to room 3.

Second deceased man is called to the desk.
Saint Peter: What was your IQ when you lived?
2nd deceased man: 120.
Saint Peter: Great, a border-line genius. Did you get your bachelors degree?
2nd deceased man: Yes, I did.
Saint Peter: Go to room 4.

Third deceased man is called to the desk.
Saint Peter: What was your IQ when you lived?
3rd deceased man: Heck, I don't know. I think it was like 20 or something.
Saint Peter: Did you get your deer?

Sometimes, I just think coyotes are smarter than most hunters.
 

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Don't know what your talking about. They took 90 dogs off the north end of monroe in a day from a chopper. The deer hunting has been the best in decades and there are rabbits like you wouldn't believe. Im pretty sure coyotes are meat eaters and they do in fact have an effect. Regardless of the 3 studies you anti predator hunter keep sighting.

Pro predator is about as anti hunting as you can get. Every critter killed by a natural predator is a critter a hunter can't kill. And anti hunters know it.
Cottontail rabbit populations cycle roughly every 10 years, Utah is on a peak cycle now after bottoming out in 2010. Look it up. Rabbits are not a good indicator that coyote populations decreasing is having a significant impact on rabbit numbers. Remember, correlation does not imply causation.

I've never even heard a serious discussion about a coyote/deer population interaction until I moved to Utah. I from Nebraska, we've got gobs of coyotes and whitetails. When the deer numbers are low it's usually due to disease and/or a hard winter. A few years ago Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease took out all the deer which was caused by a drought. Before that mange was killing all the coyotes. Both populations rising and falling independently. Keep on believing the coyotes are killing all your deer, if you want, seems silly to me.
 

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Put one cougar for every 150 deer in Nebraska like we have in Utah and you may not have many deer at all. The deer herd in Utah and all western states that have apex predators like cougar have been on a steady decline since the ban on 1080 and the implementation of LE cougar hunting.

As to rabbits if you archive threads on this very site good rabbit hunting was far and few between just a few years ago. I recall conversations about this bust boom not occurring like it did before. When you go rabbit hunting and notice a raptor on every telephone pole for miles. I can easily see why we wouldn't have the booms of the old days where you could shoot a brick in a day.

I'm not surprised the natural predators are mother natures way to limit prey populations. I'm not so sure why so many pro hunters fail to recognize or deny them as a factor. Anti hunters I get why but not hunters.
 
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Look at the Parowan deer study coyote are the second biggest factor attributed to deer mortality besides cougar. You got to have a lot of faith that those deer would have died from other reasons considering the range there is in great shape and the herd is nowhere near capacity there. Compensatory? I think not.

We recognize shed hunters atvs and paragliders scare deer and elk. Making them burn much needed calories. A natural predator keeps prey in its toes burning more calories then if it wasn't present. I'm convinced high predator population contribute to low fawn recruitment directly and indirect.
 
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Cottontail rabbit populations cycle roughly every 10 years, Utah is on a peak cycle now after bottoming out in 2010. Look it up. Rabbits are not a good indicator that coyote populations decreasing is having a significant impact on rabbit numbers. Remember, correlation does not imply causation.

I've never even heard a serious discussion about a coyote/deer population interaction until I moved to Utah. I from Nebraska, we've got gobs of coyotes and whitetails. When the deer numbers are low it's usually due to disease and/or a hard winter. A few years ago Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease took out all the deer which was caused by a drought. Before that mange was killing all the coyotes. Both populations rising and falling independently. Keep on believing the coyotes are killing all your deer, if you want, seems silly to me.
I am just curious, how many deer do you think a coyote will kill in an average year? Also do you think they just kill fawns or do you think they will kill adult deer as well?
 

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The great thing about this country is that our widlife is public. Each of us has a say. It doesn't matter where you live, our public resources are still public resources. It isn't weighted -- one person doesn't have a greater say than any other.

We also have a right to speak our minds.

If someone from Florida wants to speak out against coyote hunting in Utah, that's OK in my book.

If someone in Utah wants to speak out in favor of manatee hunting in Florida, that's also OK in my book.

petitioning a petition to petition the petition of another petition is stupid.

Are you guys really fearful that a petition from Florida might shut down coyote hunting in Utah? My goodness! Our wonderful governor Sherbert would never allow such a thing! Even with all the good science that supports facts stating that coyotes are NOT the issue (deer herd predation), our state continues to support coyote bounties!! What makes any of you think a petition from Florida would change this??

I love hearing the coyotes yipping at night at Bullfrog. Anyone want to go hunting?

Carry on.
I didn't see your post til just now.

I am not fearful of this guy's petition. What I am bothered by is the fact that when you don't live in the state you are meddling with, you don't understand the issues nor the way of life. I don't feel qualified to weigh in on Florida and their management of wildlife, nor do I feel qualified to cry foul when shooting Cecil the Lion.

This wont have any bearing on what happens in Utah and its a waste of time for this guy to stick his fingers in the pot. Its a waste of his time, and more importantly it is a waste of our time and tax payer dollars when submitted to the DNR.

I know you are playing devil's advocate and I respect your point of view. However, I don't see any specific need for an outsider to dictate the way we live when it has no bearing on how he lives.
 

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There is nothing I like to hear more on a night in the deserted places than a coyote yip, bark, and howl.
Last week I was on the shore at Deer Creek in the dark and heard movement in the brush behind me, turned my lantern around to see four sets of coyote height eyes in the brush and it wasn't one of my favorite things. They followed the brush line with me all the way back to the car.

I'll be taking a shotgun with some buckshot and slugs up one of these weekends soon and I'm going to do my best to push them to the end of the knoll and make myself $200.
 
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