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Deer Herds / Guesses on Available Permits?

4969 Views 74 Replies 25 Participants Last post by  Critter
As we approach the opening of the Utah Big Game Application period, I've been pondering of late, especially after the big storm we had a couple of weeks ago about the conditions of the deer herds around the state. I am in the Tooele County area, and there's still some decent wintering ground in the county for the deer herd to get away from the gnarly snow depths of the higher elevations. That said, the deer herd still looks like it continues to decline. After the bad storm a couple of weeks ago, I was driving Hwy 36 south of Tooele and the snow depth was up almost to the shoulders of the deer and they were slowly pushing their way through the snow. Fortunately much at those lower spots has melted away. In other areas, I am just not seeing the numbers that I have historically seen. Kind of sad really!

This has me thinking... How are the deer doing elsewhere? My friend who lives up near Morgan Utah told me he saw the DWR truck in the area the other day overloaded with dead deer carcasses in the bed. How are the deer fairing in southwest Wyoming? I've seen some pictures of the heavy snows there on social media. Pics below are from a few deer I saw in southwest Wyoming mid-January. There was quite a lot of snow then, though most of the deer looked pretty healthy at the time. Hopefully those fat reserves have helped.

I expect the number of available deer permits to be even more reduced this coming hunting season. It will be my 12-year old sons first year hunting. He would like to hunt the LaSal unit if possible (if he can pull a permit)! Anyone in southeastern Utah that has a grip on the conditions there? I also have enough points to pull a Wyoming antelope permit this fall as well. but this heavy winter has me thinking it might be worth waiting another 2-3 years. I have some business in Afton at the end of March. Might have to take a joy ride around to see if those herds look alive still!

Anyone have some thoughts on this?

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so you're saying that we should reduce tags and stockpile those deer? heck, why not just close the unit to hunting for 3 years?

(FWIW, neither of those options above will fix the problem)

It's just my prediction. I think they'll propose to increase across the board for units in southern Utah.
They have done it before. Several times. You believe they wouldn’t do it again?
FYI last year they increased tags on the Cache unit by 2000. It was one of the major increases to make up for the tag cuts to the southern units. The dynamics should be interesting to say the least.

I thought last years justifications made sense. I hope this years does too.
Weren't we supposed to know permit numbers before the draw this year?

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Last year permit number recommendations were out on march 22. They should be avaiable soon.
recommended tag numbers will be released on april 5th it looks like.
Obviously not Utah... but I imagine that the UDWR is contemplating a similar, if not more drastic approach.

Interesting comments. I'm especially intrigued by PBH's idea - never considered that idea before and it might deserve more thought.

Seems like the idea of a complete shut down of the 2023 hunt is gaining popularity (at least online) even though it doesn't make much sense. Wonder how popular that idea would be if anti-hunters were pushing it.

I'm seeing some severely emaciated deer and I'm seeing others that are doing quite well - in the same drainage (Weber) and only short distances apart. I'm thinking it must depend on where the animal was when the first big snow hit and whether it was able to move as the snow deepened. The areas where deer wintered last year are abandoned this year (4+ feet of snow). I have no idea where the deer went instead, how many were able to find sanctuary elsewhere or how many are (or soon will be) just dead and gone. Neither does the DWR.

Deer migrate and they don't care where our imaginary unit borders are. Traditional migrations have been disrupted. Predation in some areas will be significantly higher than usual. Fewer fawns will likely be born this spring. If the DWR ever did have reliable data for setting permit numbers, they sure don't have it this year.
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If you listen to last years WB workshop, the biologist explains how much better data they are getting now compared to even a few short years ago. The collaring has helped considerably to help refine their models.

There are rumors of massive die offs and personal observation by people on this and other forums. Never mind the reports of massive road kill. Yet you can still see animals as you say. It would not surprise me at all is there are tag reductions. I think the collar data will give them a pretty good idea of what is happening in real time.

Weather and conditions on the ground are pretty variable even with the higher snow pack averages.
I don’t see the B,B & OIL permit numbers decreasing all that much. I do however see antlerless permits taking a significant hit this year.
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Wonder if the DWR is contemplating reducing extended archery seasons at all... maybe make the season end before the deer rut or change it to be antlered only
Seems like the idea of a complete shut down of the 2023 hunt is gaining popularity (at least online) even though it doesn't make much sense. Wonder how popular that idea would be if anti-hunters were pushing it.
Out of curiosity, where are you hearing that from?
There will not be a complete shut down of Utah’s deer hunt this year. I realize Finnegan is not predicting or advocating for that. I’m just emphatically stating that won’t happen.

I think there are areas you can logically assume will see tag reductions, but allowing too many bucks to stay on the landscape if there is a catastrophic die off in the population would be counter-productive to replenishing the herds. It’s not going to happen.
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There will not be a complete shut down of Utah’s deer hunt this year. I realize Finnegan is not predicting or advocating for that. I’m just emphatically stating that won’t happen.

I think there are areas you can logically assume will see tag reductions, but allowing too many bucks to stay on the landscape if there is a catastrophic die off in the population would be counter-productive to replenishing the herds. It’s not going to happen.
The other thing is there is a huge difference between herds in how they are getting through the winter. The difference between the deer near home (Hobble Creek area/decent shape) and the emaciated things hanging on above Heber and some places is dramatic. Some areas probably do warrant tag cuts, but others do not. Complete closure would be a joke.
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Interesting thoughts. I think some areas the deer herd / elk herd has been hit harder than others as mentioned. Where there is still winter grounds, the deer and elk are in great shape. Where not, seems to be a different story! But I would hate to see a statewide ban on hunting for the year.

I drove to Afton Wyoming on Sunday afternoon. Amazing the amount of elk right on the highway. I saw this bull 10-15 miles west of Evanston and thought I would turn around and photograph it. At first I was amazed as it's a pretty nice bull, but after downloading the pics, I really felt for the bull and wonder if it lives another week! He looks tired and hungry!

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Whatever happens to the tag availability this year, I swear, I will slap the stupid out of anyone complaining about not drawing a tag.:cool:
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Whatever happens to the tag availability this year, I swear, I will slap the stupid out of anyone complaining about not drawing a tag.:cool:
There’s already guys complaining about not drawing a tag AND complaining about winter kill in the same paragraph. It’s pretty incredible.
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There’s already guys complaining about not drawing a tag AND complaining about winter kill in the same paragraph. It’s pretty incredible.
Every year you hear guys bitching that the DWR is decimating the herd by giving out too many tags and then a bunch of bitching about how the DWR is ruining the family tradition of deer hunting because they can't draw a tag. They think they need to have it all and have it all the time. Maybe if they weren't so busy bitching they could find hunting opportunity outside of deer in Utah.
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Every year you hear guys bitching that the DWR is decimating the herd by giving out too many tags and then a bunch of bitching about how the DWR is ruining the family tradition of deer hunting because they can't draw a tag. They think they need to have it all and have it all the time. Maybe if they weren't so busy bitching they could find hunting opportunity outside of deer in Utah.
It’s just everyone else is the problem. Their 2 point blastin azz has nothing to do with it.
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I’m going to be really ticked if I don’t get a deer tag this year.

And I’ll blast a 2 point just for B&D!
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I’m going to be really ticked if I don’t get a deer tag this year.

And I’ll blast a 2 point just for B&D!
I'm not sure what they have to do with anything, but they put out some bangers back in the day.

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I’m going to be really ticked if I don’t get a deer tag this year.

And I’ll blast a 2 point just for B&D!
I don’t care what you shoot. Just don’t complain about the lack of 200” deer standing behind every tree right off the road.
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