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My AR is just like my brother's M4. So, I asked him if an AR was good for hunting deer and elk and he said, "I hunted humans. And humans are more elusive than deer or elk in that the sum biatches will shoot back and are hunting you too." I like mine especially for coyote hunting because of the extremely low recoil and return is fast with or without a scope. It doesn't hurt that if I should miss a coyote, I have another 29 chances to make it right.
 

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First of all, an AR platform rifle is no more a weapon than my son's baseball bat. Quit calling a firearm a weapon. A firearm is a firearm.

Nambaster, your logic is a little off kilter. A bolt rifle is designed for combat use too, so quit painting a dark picture about AR's.

Every firearm owner in America had better be accepting of ALL firearms.
My argument is not that the AR's a bad gun. They are great guns and they serve a great purpose. Situationally can you describe a big-game hunting senario where you would need a 20 round magazine? If the goal is discussing the AR for deer hunting my position that I am going to hold is that there are more optimal platforms for pursuing wild ungulates which require limited tag allocations. This includes effectiveness as well. I will continue to state that if an AR is the only gun that you have and it is the difference between hunting and not hunting the answer is always HUNTING!

As stated the .223 is not an optimal round for hunting. The .243, .308, and other adequate rounds will do great for hunting, but the point is....the deer is not going to care if it was pounded by a gun with a flash surpressor or vented barrel designed for cooling after several rounds are fired. In a big game forum I continue to stand my ground and insist that if Big-game hunting is your ultimate goal an AR platform is not your ultimate firearm.

Situationally a prairie dog town and an AR-15 would be heavenly. Multiple coyotes coming into a call would also be very effective with an AR-15. and the other AR's shooting larger calibers can kill deer effectively, but I am confused as to why take the tactical AR route over a Remmington Model 700 or a Ruger M77?

Royta I must have hit a soft spot with you... I am not after your AR's and I support AR ownership. Until there is a release of sufficient tags that come in multiples of 10-15 per person I do not see a purpose for them in Big-game hunting. I am not going to stop the guy who hunts elk with a .50 BMG but I will insist that it does not make sense to me.

Now I know how Jim Zumbo felt.
 

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The design of an AR is a multi round design for combat use. You said so yourself "it is no different than any other semi auto weapon" but the point is....the deer is not going to care if it was pounded by a gun with a flash surpressor or vented barrel designed for cooling after several rounds are fired.
So you are telling me that this was designed for combat?? http://http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228 It functions just like a 10/22 or 1187 shotgun. There are a lot of other rifles in semi auto also that were never used in combat and were designed specifically for hunting, Browning made a lot of them. They all do the same thing, they automatically load the next round for you. You pull the trigger and it fires one bullet. You let off the trigger and pull it to fire again. As someone else stated, the bolt action is also used in combat so why are you using it to hunt with? So was the muzzle loader and bow. There are many bolt action rifles with muzzle brake on them also. Guess we could say that is also a feature designed for the military. Why would you need that on a hunting rifle?

My argument is not that the AR's a bad gun. They are great guns and they serve a great purpose. Situationally can you describe a big-game hunting senario where you would need a 20 round magazine?
Nobody asked or said anything about hunting with a 20 round magazine did they? You can buy 5 round mags also. The AR is a comfortable weapon to hold and shoot. I prefer them over a bolt action. I use a bolt action my self for big game and use my AR for coyotes. The fact I dont use the AR to hunt big game does not mean I am against it. Why do you even need more than one round then? The bolt actions hold 3-5 rounds. Why dont we all just use a single shot rifle.

but I am confused as to why take the tactical AR route over a Remmington Model 700 or a Ruger M77?
Both these companies are now offer bolt action rifles that have removeable magazines. Are you against that also, after all why would you need to fire more than one round for big game hunting?

The rifles that I own are firearms intended for hunting purposes.

I just wish that I could find some rounds for my wifes .308 or .243 those weapons reduce the availability of ammunition for my firearms.
So you are saying that the AR's or any semi auto rifle being sold in Cabelas, Sportsmans and all the other stores are being sold for use in combat? Do you really believe that because of the AR you cannot find any 243 or 308 ammo?? Is that why you have a hard time finding 22 LR also?? After all you can buy an AR in 22 LR also.
 

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As far as round size and ballistic efficiency are concerned, they now chamber AR's in 6.8 as well (.270). The ballistics are even an improvement over the .243. Overall for big game hunting, I'll swap my muzzy barrel on my encore pro hunter to the 300 Win Mag and because I don't think HUNTING is taking a 1000 yard shot and because a single shot forces you to take a little more time and focus on that shot, I prefer it for deer and elk over my AR. The .223 is a perfect round for coyotes and I have less of a hard time finding that round than even a small box of .22!!! My final 2 pennies........
 

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So you are telling me that this was designed for combat?? http://http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228 It functions just like a 10/22 or 1187 shotgun. There are a lot of other rifles in semi auto also that were never used in combat and were designed specifically for hunting, Browning made a lot of them. They all do the same thing, they automatically load the next round for you. You pull the trigger and it fires one bullet. You let off the trigger and pull it to fire again. As someone else stated, the bolt action is also used in combat so why are you using it to hunt with? So was the muzzle loader and bow. There are many bolt action rifles with muzzle brake on them also. Guess we could say that is also a feature designed for the military. Why would you need that on a hunting rifle?AR Rifle is to Hunting Rifle as Dodge Viper is to daily commuter yes I am envious of those who have the luxury of owning one

Nobody asked or said anything about hunting with a 20 round magazine did they? You can buy 5 round mags also. The AR is a comfortable weapon to hold and shoot. I prefer them over a bolt action. I use a bolt action my self for big game and use my AR for coyotes. The fact I dont use the AR to hunt big game does not mean I am against it. Why do you even need more than one round then? The bolt actions hold 3-5 rounds. Why dont we all just use a single shot rifle. Agreed, there is optimal use for predator hunting for the AR any advantage the AR has on Big game can beat argued until the cows come home. You can get groceries in a Dodge Viper just as well as you can in a Dodge Caliber. One does not get groceries better than the other

Both these companies are now offer bolt action rifles that have removeable magazines. Are you against that also, after all why would you need to fire more than one round for big game hunting? Hopefully you don't

So you are saying that the AR's or any semi auto rifle being sold in Cabelas, Sportsmans and all the other stores are being sold for use in combat? noDo you really believe that because of the AR you cannot find any 243 or 308 ammo?? Is that why you have a hard time finding 22 LR also?? After all you can buy an AR in 22 LR also.
Yes I am, has anyone conducted a study on the direct correlation between caliber availability and high capacity capability? The 10/22 is definitely a lot more to blame for the absence of .22 LR

If 1-I is asking should I purchase an AR for the purpose of hunting Big game and shelf my current rifles. My advice is No, you should not If the question was should I purchase an AR the answer would be Yes, you should
 

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It sounds to me that the bigger argument is whether or not using high capacity magazines are right for hunting big game and not the platform they are associated with.

I personally don't want to hunt with a guy who can't hit a target after 2-3 shots. I feel my safety would be at risk with that guy. However, it's not my place to tell a guy that he can't hunt with something that meets Division requirements.
 

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All Nambaster is trying to say is that there are better choices for a big game hunting rifle other than an AR.
Its called an "Assault Rifle" not a "hunting rifle" for a reason.
 

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All Nambaster is trying to say is that there are better choices for a big game hunting rifle other than an AR.
Its called an "Assault Rifle" not a "hunting rifle" for a reason.
That is not what AR stands for. Assualt rifle is just a term used by most that are against them. Those that use them call them a Modern Sporting Rifle. Saying there are better choices is all a personal opinion. Same could be said about what caliber to use or what make of rifle.
 

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I don't get the debate... I lived down in Tucson for a few years and saw a lot of deer shot by .223 up to the 200 yd range. Particularly by kids 10-13 years old. The main platform was the AR. If it works for you great, if it doesn't why bother anyone else
 

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AR stands for Armalite rifle and Ar s are a fine h,unting rifle.
Oh beat me to it^
 

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I'm a newbie here, but here's my .02. I carried an M4 for several years in various conditions, and spent some time doing some shop-level maintenance on them as an additional duty. By no means am I an expert, but I'm pretty familiar with the platform overall. ARs in general are well-machined, accurate, worthwhile rifles - for their purpose. I have no issue with folks who own them, fire them, or ethically hunt with them.

Would I personally buy one for hunting, though? Definitely not. Variants in calibers other than .223 tend to be pretty expensive compared to bolt rifles (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions), and they tend to be heavier than bolt rifles in the same caliber (in general, I'm sure there are exceptions). Most importantly for me, though, I've found them to be fairly unreliable for field use. Unless you're carrying an HK-type MR with the piston system, a standard AR using carbon blowback has a finite working life before it needs a thorough cleaning, which isn't always practical in the field. This, coupled with tight manufacturing tolerances that love to gather dirt, sand, dust, mud, etc, create reliability issues that I just don't see with a plain, simple bolt rifle.

OP - find one to shoot, and have a go. Once you're familiar with it, I'd buy what makes you happy. If the benefits of an AR outweigh the risks, go for it! If not, there are plenty of other options available.
 

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How long has it been since you carried an M4? The M4 comes in at6.5 lbs not many bolt guns weigh less than that. As for reliability and maintenance a M4 can put 100s of rounds down the tube before losing any accuracy. They are also a very versatile hunting rifle coming in calibers from .22lr on up to the .50 bmg . And cost not going to be much more than a quality bolt gun.
 

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FSHCHSR, 4 1/2 years. I'm sure everyone's experience with an AR's reliability may vary. Mine was that it's not terribly reliable. In terms of accuracy they're great, no doubt. In terms of reliability, though, I've never seen one fire hundreds of rounds without fail. They've been proven to do so in lab tests, but in field conditions I believe that would be tough to achieve, with failures to eject or extract high on the list of malfunctions. Several military units have dropped the M4 altogether for this reason, preferring the H&K 416 with its short stroke gas piston system or the FN SCAR. Again, not bashing ARs - to each their own, it's a great rifle in the right conditions, and most folks don't use it hard enough to inspire failure.

In terms of weight, you're right, a base AR with stock hand guards weighs in at 6 lbs 7 oz. Add 4 oz for the mag, and .75 oz per rd. with a 7 rd mag, you're up to 7 lbs .25 oz. Assuming same scope weight with rings and bases, a kimber classic (the rifle I carry hunting, in 280 AI) in .223 weighs 5 lbs 13 oz. With 6 rds, you're up to 6 lbs 1.5 oz. If you add a fore end rail system to the AR the weight begins to stack up, though, with KAC rail weighing in at another 11.3 oz. Move to a hunting specific AR like Remington and you start at 7 lbs 12 oz base weight. Smith and Wesson M&P 15 PC is 8 lbs 2 oz. The H&K MR556 (civilian 416) starts at 9 lbs even.

Price-wise, in .223 ARs aren't bad at the low end. Bump to .308 or a similar caliber for big game, though, and your price point increases from 800-900 to 1500-1600. At the higher end like Sig you can pay 2100, and you can break 3500 for an H&K in .308.

Again, though, I say buy what makes you happy! I wouldn't hunt big game with an AR, but that's just personal preference. I'd buy one for a fun gun, though, if I could afford the HK762 -
 

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I've never seen one fire hundreds of rounds without fail. They've been proven to do so in lab tests, but in field conditions I believe that would be tough to achieve, with failures to eject or extract high on the list of malfunctions. Again, not bashing ARs - to each their own, it's a great rifle in the right conditions, and most folks don't use it hard enough to inspire failure.
Lol!! Go spend some time on m4carbine.net and tell the folks, who go through 1000 rounds in one weekend at a training class, that their rifles aren't reliable. Report back.
 

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Uhmmmm......I spent some quality time at http://bulletsandburgers.com/ . Never had more fun in my LIFE and their M4 and other AR platform rifles spit out THOUSANDS PER DAY. The only other rifle they would say outperforms the AR is the AK47. AND if you were working on the ones that did have issues, of course your experience will be worse than those who never have an issue with theirs. Mine has spit out at least 5000 rounds since I bought it and the only work done to it, other than regular cleaning and maintenance are the mods I did to add a light and laser to it for coyotes. Not doubting your experience with them, Crazy...but maybe your expertise, a little?

I would agree that one should shoot a rifle first before buying one and then buy what suits your purpose, comfort, and budget.
 

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Anyone ever ask a Conservation Officer what they shoot with when the have to handle depredation issues?

I work with a lot of them on a daily basis. I shoot an LMT with a IOR Valdada 1.5-8x35mm scope and a Trijicon Red dot on a 45 degree mount. My scope has a reticle designed for a 62gr projectile out to 800 yards with a 200 yard zero. With it I have taken multiple deer and elk. My AR might be a little more "tricked out" than most, but it gets the job done. My latest shot was a 245 yard broadside on a Mule Deer right behind the front shoulder, last week. Dropped him in his tracks with Hornady 75gr match ammo . The duty ammo issued to us is Federal 55gr sftpt.

Why do I shoot this platform? It's what we are issued and we can only shoot what we've been issued and qualified with. I've NEVER lost an animal with this platform and I've NEVER had one go more than 40yrds after being shot. It's all about shot placement. End of story.

Why do other people hunt with this platform? Because they choose to. Coming from an LEO, if its not against the law-then what's the problem. And I've seen A LOT of Elk lost from guys shooting high powered scoped hunting rifles. So if someone chooses to hunt with an AR, what's the issue? Because it carries more ammunition? Does more ammo really make a difference? I know that it sucks trying to prone out with a 30 rnd mag. Maybe its because they can only afford ONE firearm and the AR is one of the best, all around firearms on the market from home defense to hunting.

As long as they are able to put the round where it counts, in the end, does it really matter?;)
 

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My wife carries a Ruger Mini-14 as her deer rifle of choice. She has killed 2 deer in the last 3 years with the rifle, she missed a deer last year when I made her to switch to a bolt action .308. She is back to the Mini-14 this year. She's comfortable and accurate both bucks were killed with 1 shot. The AR is similar practically identical in function to the Mini-14 although looking different. With the right round and in the right hands the .223 is a perfect option. That being said it is not best for everyone. As far as the M4/AR reliability. I've put just a few thousand rounds through each platform and have yet to have any reliability issues. Atleast not from the platform, magazines are a different story.
 
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