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Archery doesn't need any advertising. Last year in one area I frequent, there were so many hunters (both new and old) it was just like rifle season, only with bows. Year before that, only saw 2 other hunters in the same area, and those guys I bumped into on the road, not in the field.
Truth. I'm simply pointing out that the option to hunt OTC every year is essentially guaranteed for anyone willing to pick up a bow (or crossbow if needed).

I wouldn't be sad to see the multi season tag go away in it's current iteration. I'll take advantage of it while I can, but I think they need to evaluate it's current implementation.

Here's a thought to kick the hornets nest. Full Random Draw with no waiting period for a subset of any bull permits that are multi season. The rest are Any Weapon or Muzzleloader season only sold OTC in the current model. While were at it, separate out the non residents from the permit pool and have those go on sale a different day.
 

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Can you imagine what would happen to the quality of elk hunting if the entire state (except LE units) went to unlimited any bull tags?? Good gosh, the hunting would go to shiz in less than 5 years!! Maybe that was the biologist’s hopes though so they could come in a “fix” the problem after the fact.

The general hunts are difficult enough already… but that’s Ok, it’s hunting and I’m fine with it. On the other hand, mountain ranges devoid of elk because they’ve all been shot to hell by the masses is not something that I want to see. For example, What happened when they opened the north end of the Oak Creeks years ago? Yep…shot to hades and just one of many examples that elk can and are eradicated when substandard management plans are proposed. We don’t need that on a statewide scale thank you!
 

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I wonder sometimes if people think elk can/should be managed the same way they manage whitetails back east… 🙄
 

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I wonder sometimes if people think elk can/should be managed the same way they manage whitetails back east… 🙄
How do they manage whitetails back east? I've lived in the west my entire life (outside of mandated travel by uncle sam). So I honestly haven't a clue.
 

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IV. USE AND DEMAND Elk have become one of the most sought after big game animals in Utah. Geist (1998) in Deer of the World says the following of red deer, the elk of the old world: “It adorns coats of arms, crests and monuments and is the deer of legends, poetry, and songs. Castles were built in its honor and to display its antlers, and throughout history its hunting and management generated passions that transcended life, death, and reason…” Sportsmen are no less passionate about elk and elk hunting in Utah today. Hunter demand and interest for limited entry permits has always been high (Table 3). In 2014, a total of 53,334 hunters applied for 2,868 limited entry permits, resulting in 1:16.1 draw odds for residents a and 1:43.4 for nonresidents. Draw odds have been relatively stable over the past 8 years when comparing total hunters with permits available; however, some hunts have more favorable draw odds than others. For instance, nearly 60% of all limited entry elk hunters apply for the early season rifle hunt, resulting in added point creep for those hunts. Also, units managed for older age class bulls are more difficult to draw compared to lower age class units. In addition to limited entry permits, Utah sold 40,807 general season elk permits for spike and any bull hunts in 2014. Although the number of general season elk permits has remained relatively constant over the past five years, the permits have been selling out earlier each year, indicating the demand for general season elk hunting in Utah.
 

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Before I say this, I want to be clear I don’t in any way want to take away ANY opportunity we have now with utahs general elk hunts, but there are a few things they could change to better disperse hunting opportunities

-get rid of them 3 season spike tags and put them in a draw, like they do with a dedicated deer tag. Same concept, allow 2 kills in a 3 year period

-manage the spike unit 3 season draw tags like they do for deer. Apply for a single unit that has a quota of 500 or so. If you want to hunt 3 seasons, you gotta draw, otherwise you have to pick your season when you buy a tag OTC

-if you draw a 3 season spike tag, cows won’t be legal during the archery hunt. Spike bulls only. Cow or spike is only legal if you buy an unlimited quota OTC archery tags

-no PP will apply or be banked for the spike draw. All random. 1 year waiting period before you can apply again

all that would apply for any bull tags as well
 

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How do they manage whitetails back east? I've lived in the west my entire life (outside of mandated travel by uncle sam). So I honestly haven't a clue.
Buy a tag and go hunt pretty much. In Louisiana you get 6 deer for $30. Kentucky get 1 buck and 2 doe I think for your license and initial tag. Can buy extra doe tags. Can’t remember how many deer in Maryland on a standard license. But I’m about to find out since that’s where I’ll be hunting again this year. I know the public land I hunt there I can get 3. One buck and 2 does. Most states don’t have draws and crap like that. Just buy a license and tag and go hunt.


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Lone Hunter- I am from OK and you can shoot 2 bucks, 4 does, and a "bonus" doe over the course of a season for your total bag limit. The reason these states can do that (as Brettski also illustrates in his post) is that whitetails are a whole different animal when compared to elk (or mule deer for that matter). Lots of good forage, so they are more productive, LOTS of private land, so they have relative sanctuary away from the masses (there are still deer on the small chunks of public, but the hunting is generally much tougher), and whitetails will tolerate people in close proximity - even living in suburbs when there is adequate cover and feed...which again is abundant. They don't migrate and often live their entire lives within a couple square miles.

Yes, they are hunted hard, but there are more of them as noted above and they can handle it. Less than 50% of Utah is usable land (someone correct if I'm wrong) and if we were to open up the entire state to any bull, it wouldn't take long to knock our 70K animals down to 30K, and the majority of the rest would figure out real quick that the large ranches and CWMUs in the state are their best bet for survival. The hunting for your average hunter would go to crap in short order.
 

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Buy a tag and go hunt pretty much. In Louisiana you get 6 deer for $30. Kentucky get 1 buck and 2 doe I think for your license and initial tag. Can buy extra doe tags. Can’t remember how many deer in Maryland on a standard license. But I’m about to find out since that’s where I’ll be hunting again this year. I know the public land I hunt there I can get 3. One buck and 2 does. Most states don’t have draws and crap like that. Just buy a license and tag and go hunt.


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It is just supply and demand.

If a mule deer or a elk was like a whitetail deer and adapted to farm lands then perhaps there would be a over population here in the west. But they haven't so western states need to work with what they have.
 

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It is just supply and demand.

If a mule deer or a elk was like a whitetail deer and adapted to farm lands then perhaps there would be a over population here in the west. But they haven't so western states need to work with what they have.
Oh yea I understand that. Wasn’t disputing that. Just answering the question asked.


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I know there are a few, but should we promote their expansion through transplants?
And while I will always respect a Mule Deer way more than a Whitetail, it is the yearly family group deer hunting opportunity I am after.
If you are a hunter I liken it to the Mourning vs. Eurasian Dove issue Utah is facing right now:
The Eurasians have really taken over in my traditional Dove haunts but I am having a fantastic time hunting them.
Here is a similar comparison for you fisherman:
Strawberry Reservoir used to kick out limit after limit of 3-5 lb. Rainbows without even trying, and this was every fishing day.
Those 3-5lb. easy limits are gone, replaced with easy limit after limit of 2-4lb. Salmon.
Do I miss those easy, big Bows? Heck yes!
Am I going to poo-poo easy limits of big Kokes?
Heck no, I’m going to enjoy the crap outta’ them!!
Just like I would hunting Whitetails if our Mule Deer can’t be recovered.
It will be the opportunity of the future.
 

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If mule deer went the way of the Dodo, then yes, promote whitetails, but until then, I say keep them out (as much as possible).
 

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Mule deer are uniquely western. They need all the help we can give them I think.
 

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Wyoming is as traditional as Mule Deer hunting has ever been, look at those folks up there take advantage of an opportunity.
I’m not advocating for it yet, I just wanted to open up a dialogue on the subject to see what you all thought about it?
I will start a new thread so as to not steal from this one.
 
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