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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Keep a watchful eye on anterless tags and be vocal in not wanting lots of cow tags that will push back elk numbers. With the water and feed situation at its current state on public lands, the elk will start taking the brunt of the blame from the good ole boys and they’ll be pushing for some big decreases in elk numbers. Also, pray for rain.
 

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Who would of thought.....

 

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Good reading Moose! I've been in the hills and I must say.....It's dry as Popcorn fart. Hang on to your britches this year.
 

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If the biologist say the range can only handle a certain amount of elk right now, then I'd prefer a cow or calf elk be in someones freezer than in a coyotes or crows belly!
If the elk need to be cut back, then so do the cattle.
 

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Agreed on all counts, ridge! It’s a tricky balance, and I don’t think we ever do a great job of finding the balance, but I agree with the premise. I wish that was more the way things worked.
 

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Agreed on all counts, ridge! It’s a tricky balance, and I don’t think we ever do a great job of finding the balance, but I agree with the premise. I wish that was more the way things worked.
Not only are the elk competing with the cattle but they are also competing with the mule deer. If this drought continues another 6 months. We are going to see a huge drop off in deer numbers next year and probably a lower calf elk survival rate too.
 

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Range
  • On rangeland ecosystems, there is a pronounced lack of vegetation production, and in some areas this presents the problem of over-utilization of forage. Without enough forage, cattlemen are having to come off early or go on late on private or permitted lands.
  • Limited forage for both cattle and wildlife, brittle range vegetation, vegetation is brown.
  • Lack of available forage for sale
  • No mosture of significance, range conditions deteriorating; Shrubs such as sagebrush producing little or no seed heads.
  • Dry ponds, little available water. Farmers and rancher have been hauling water to livestock.
  • Lots of dry dust
  • Many areas in Carbon, Emery, Grand and San Juan Counties with below average vegetation production
  • From the Bureau of Land Management (BLM): 25-75% reduction in grazing allotments which will have longer term impacts with lack of seed production
  • Livestock came off the ranges early
  • Increased livestock sales,
  • Less forage growth than usual. Body condition of livestock are not the best condition.
  • Very stressful time for producers
 

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The reductions in grazing have been going on for awhile and continue. Not to mention the lack of buyers last fall. And of course this is not just a Utah problem.

Yes there needs to be compromises and producers are being forced to do their part if not for any other reason than economics. I'm not sure why some people think the demise of ranching is going to be a godsend to hunters.
 

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People have no idea of what the ranchers do to keep water sources open and in some areas the troughs for the cattle are about the only place that wildlife can get a good drink.

Those who complain about mountain maggots and cattle should have to work with the range riders for a month to see just what they do that also benefits wildlife.
 

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Not only are the elk competing with the cattle but they are also competing with the mule deer. If this drought continues another 6 months. We are going to see a huge drop off in deer numbers next year and probably a lower calf elk survival rate too.
Yep, and it will never be mentioned one time as a major cause when UWN does our quarterly "save the deer herd" threads.
 

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Keep a watchful eye on anterless tags and be vocal in supporting biologists' recommendations if they feel a need to reduce elk numbers to maintain healthy herds. With the water and feed situation at its current state on public and private lands, there may be a need to reduce elk numbers. Also, pray for rain.

I graze only on private lands and sold 40% of my herd in February because of drought conditions. I am currently contemplating selling the remaining 60%. Cattle prices are in the toilet. I just sold a 660lb calf for 1/2 the price of what it would have been worth just 6 months ago. Cow/calf pairs are down 40-50% of what they were worth 3 months ago.

Water from the canyon next to our place in UT County is running approx 1/5 of normal for this time of year. By July it might not even keep the fish alive. Just sad. Everyone is going to take a hit in this situation.
 

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I graze only on private lands and sold 40% of my herd in February because of drought conditions. I am currently contemplating selling the remaining 60%. Cattle prices are in the toilet. I just sold a 660lb calf for 1/2 the price of what it would have been worth just 6 months ago. Cow/calf pairs are down 40-50% of what they were worth 3 months ago.
It is amazing at the price of beef in the grocery store that the rancher is taking it in the shorts.

My nephew picked up two beef steers for free last year from down south but the only butcher that he could find that would take them from the hoofs to the freezer was out in Vernal. With as many elk that he has shot and butchered I told him to do it himself but he wanted a actual butcher to do it.
 

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It won’t be just the elk getting thinned. You’ll see extra bison, pronghorn and deer tags issued if we keep heading down the path we are on.

I hope they cut grazing permits down too, but the wildlife seem to always get the shaft first.

ps I wouldn’t turn in ANYONE that wanted to shoot a wild horse or 10, if I happened to witness it. Probably ask the guy what his favorite kinda beer was and buy him a cold case of it. We need to start with those land carp first since they live in the areas That’ll get hit the hardest anyways.
 

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If tags have to be cut and grazing permits reduced, it seems like a great time to reduce the number of feral horses on the range.
Boy, that's opening a can of worms you'll never get the lid back on!
People have no idea of what the ranchers do to keep water sources open and in some areas the troughs for the cattle are about the only place that wildlife can get a good drink.

Those who complain about mountain maggots and cattle should have to work with the range riders for a month to see just what they do that also benefits wildlife.
Been there, done it far longer than I wanted. Hardest work one can imagine.

You ever had to drag a cow that had been gut shot with an arrow uphill for 1/4 mile? Maybe they should eliminate archery hunting too.
 

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I'm not sure why some people think the demise of ranching is going to be a godsend to hunters.
It is not accurate to portray a statement suggesting that during record drought, grazing on public lands should be reduced if the the wild animal populations need to be reduced as anyone favoring “the demise of ranching.”
 

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People have no idea of what the ranchers do to keep water sources open and in some areas the troughs for the cattle are about the only place that wildlife can get a good drink.

Those who complain about mountain maggots and cattle should have to work with the range riders for a month to see just what they do that also benefits wildlife.
They wouldn’t have to keep water sources open if their cows weren’t there to stomp them in every day. animals have managed to find water in the driest areas of the desert for thousands of years. Without cattle to compete with, I’d imagine they’d still manage to survive. What else do they do for our public lands and wildlife? Besides let their animals over graze, sometimes for months after their allotment dates end, what else do they do? Push around wildlife? Wanna talk about the noxious weeds they bring and spread into our public lands? What about the trail and habitat damage? Yeah off road vehicles do tear up a hillside, but they don’t hold a candle to what 10 cows single file do to a trail or a hillside. They turn managed public trails to absolute powder, making it extremely hard for other public users to use them. They reduce fire hazards? Anyone that’s been around utah the last 5 years in utah knows that’s a complete lie. They over graze everywhere in this state yet the whole thing goes up in flames with nothing to stop it. I’ve met a lot of entitled hunters on public lands over the years, but none of them can compare to the entitlement felt by the cattlemen. They “pay to be on that land”, giving them more right than anyone else to be up there. At $1.89 per cow and calf or whatever it is a year, they can pound sand when it comes to their advocacy of reducing public resources so their private resources can have more to eat.

I don’t feel sorry for any rancher. They chose that life style and line of work. No one made them do it. And when things get hard, it’s the cows and sheep that need to be reduced first before killing off any wildlife is even adiscussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The reductions in grazing have been going on for awhile and continue. Not to mention the lack of buyers last fall. And of course this is not just a Utah problem.

Yes there needs to be compromises and producers are being forced to do their part if not for any other reason than economics. I'm not sure why some people think the demise of ranching is going to be a godsend to hunters.
In some parts of the state this may be true. I know what the attitude is in rural areas of the state. I’ve been in the meetings. I’m not sure “compromise” is the most fitting word for many of the folks who use public lands for grazing. The demise of of ranching is not what I want, true balance is what I want, and this is headed toward one of the worst years we’ve ever seen. I haven’t seen it quite this bad, ever.
 

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It is not accurate to portray a statement suggesting that during record drought, grazing on public lands should be reduced if the the wild animal populations need to be reduced as anyone favoring “the demise of ranching.”
It was more directed to the poster directly below your post than anyone else. And as stated the producers are already and have at least in the past year reduced their herds considerably. The fact stands that the producers have already born the losses and as yet no herd reductions have been proposed for wildlife. Will this change? Perhaps it will. As I understand it there is only one dedicated voice on the WB for producers. If others see the need to reduce populations of livestock or wildlife so be it.

And in case anyone missed it there has been a 25-75% reduction on both BLM and FS allotments.
 
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