[J-bass]

Well, I'm really getting into this whole trout thing lately, so I've decided to add one my weapon to my arsenal and I just stopped by Sportmans to get some flies. I was told that the best thing to use where those big old flies that I think are called woolly buggers or something??? I'm not really sure, but they're the bigger type of flies. Anyway, I was told to use 8lb fluorocarbon line for a leader, and to weight the fly about 12"-18" up with a split shot. Obviosly, I would then slip a bubble on the other end, tie a swivel on and then tie the leader to the swivel.

What I don't know is how long of a leader I need, and what sort of a retrievel will I be going for? Any hints, tips, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated and I think a lot of guys could benefit from this information.

 

[J-bass]

Oh, some of the flies had cone heads, so I guess I don't need to add weight to those, and the guy at Sprortsmans, (who was very helpful and accomodating by the way), told be to use a rapala knot, also known as a non-slip mono knot. Any tips on that would be good too.

 

[nkunz]

I like a long leader ( about 9') but it is hard to cast. I have seen people being sucessful with leader as short as 2'. As for the speed of the retreive, You will have to ask the fish what they want. Sometimes they want it very very slow, even stopped. Sometimes they want it very fast. You just have to try different speeds and techniques.

 

[J-bass]

Thanks nkunz, but do you just do a nice steady sort of retrieve, or do you jig it at all, or even vary the speed, like fast bursts followed by slow pulls? Does that make any sense?

 

[Grandpa D]

Try everything you said, J-bass.
I also like to use a long leader.
My rig is set up as follows.
Run the line from your rod through the small end of the bubble.
Tie a snap swivel to the line. The swivel will stop the bubble from moving closer to the fly.
Putting the swivel at the large end of the bubble keeps the stopper of the bubble in place.
Next, make a leader that's about as long as your rod is. [Even longer if you can cast it.]
I don't bother with florocarbon but it's your choice. I use 8# fly tipit for the leader.
Tie a loop on one end and attach that end to the swivel. Now what I do next differs from others.
I tie another small snap swivel to the other end of the leader. I use this swivel to attach
the fly.
This does 2 things. First, it adds weight to the fly instead of adding a sinker. Second, it makes it very easy to change flies.
I like to use a black swivel and I fish with black, dark green or brown woolly buggers.
Some people like to also use white, purple and bright sparkle buggers. You can try them all.
You are almost ready to fish now. If you want to fish close to the bottom of the water, fill the bubble all the way full of water. Use less water to float the bubble, and fish closer to the top.
Now for my secret sauce. I add crawdaddy smelly jelly to the fly.
Cast as far as you can and if you are fishing a full bubble, wait several seconds before you start to reel back in, to let the fly sink.
I find a very, very, very, slow steady retreave works best, most of the time.
When you feel a strike, just snap your wrist to set the hook. Don't use a bass set, as this will pull the fly out of the fishes mouth and scare it away. By just giving a short quick set, the fish will continue to follow the fly, if you missed the hook up. It will strike again.
Cast all over the water if you have room.
Also, don't over look other smaller flies like Prince Nymphs, Pheasant Tail Nymphs, and Zug Bugs.
Be careful removing the fly from the fishes mouth. You can dammage the fly if you use plyers or forceps. You should be able to remove the hook with your fingers. You can also pinch the barb of the hook down, to make it easier to remove the hook.
Once you have mastered this way of fishing, you will be ready to try a fly rod!
Good luck and have fun,
Grandpa D.

 

[J-bass]

It looks like I might get to show you the rapala knot this Friday, J-Bass!

Yes, it looks like quite a sweet little trip is coming forth. About that, I'm about to send you a PM so look out for that.

Grandpa D, that was EXACTLY what I was looking for. I thought I was all set, but apparetly I need to go buy some small, black snap swivels. I only have small barrel and three-way swivels and large snap ones, so it's back to Sportsmans I go. I like the idea of using the weight of the swivel instead of spitshots too, it seems like it would be more natural. I really would like to learn how to fly fish, and I'm glad to hear this is a step in the right direction. Aslo, that advice on how to set the hook on trout will be priceless, I'm sure. I did keep ripping the bait right out of the mouths of the Tigers at Scofield, and it took some time to get it right, but it still wasn't perfect. I'm sure that'll reduce the number of fish that get away.

Well, this looks like yet another example of why this forum is so **** awesome!!! Good luck to everyone fishing this long weekend, and I hope this thread helped more than just myself.

 

[nkunz]

As Grandpa D said "Do everything you said." The fish will tell you what they want on any particular day. I set my rig up much like Grandpa D. I use 4# Vanish for leader 90% of the time. I use two flies. One about 3' in front of the other. That allows you to try twice at many flies and I think it raises their competitive nature. The only problem is when you get into larger fish you can get in trouble. I can generally land most trout on 4# but when you get a fish on each fly and they swim in opposite directions they will break the 4# and I have to jump up to 6#.

 

[J-bass]

As Grandpa D said "Do everything you said." The fish will tell you what they want on any particular day. I set my rig up much like Grandpa D. I use 4# Vanish for leader 90% of the time. I use two flies. One about 3' in front of the other. That allows you to try twice at many flies and I think it raises their competitive nature. The only problem is when you get into larger fish you can get in trouble. I can generally land most trout on 4# but when you get a fish on each fly and they swim in opposite directions they will break the 4# and I have to jump up to 6#.

Doubling it up sounds way fun!!! I'm gonna have to try that. Does doubling up on woolly buggers work too? And do you use a three way swivel for the upper fly and then tie another leader to the end, or what?

 

[Aldeez]

Awesome topic. Guess I'm making a trip to Sportsman's too.

 

[fishnate]

With a little difference of opinion here's my 2 cents worth. This is a technique that begs for a long rod 6.5 to 7.5 foot long, a rod with back bone but a soft tip. It's just too hard to get a good cast with 5.5 or 6 footers or whimpy rods.

My rig is similar to Grandpa D's but I use as light of leader as I can get away with. At Strawberry I would go with 6 to 8 lb leader but if the odds are for the typical 12-16 inch trout then 4 lb leader is usually heavy enough. I rig in this order: bobber > small bead, to protect the knot > barrell swivel > 5 to 6 foot leader > fly (dispense with the snap at the fly).

Two flies allows you several options: two colors of the same fly to find color preference; two sizes of the same fly to find size preference; or two patterns if fish are picky one pattern acts as an attractor bringing the fish in to the other fly (try bugger/prince nymph, renegade/pheasant tail, zonker/midge or any combination of the above) Tie the large fly on first and the second fly off the bend of the first hook with about 1 to 3 feet of leader. I decrease the leader weight down to 2 or 3 lb for the smaller flies.

One thing I hate about the bobber rig is that the bobber tends to come back to the surface if you retrieve any faster than a snails pace (Yawn) no matter how full the bobber is so extra weight near the bobber may be needed to help keep it down for faster retrieves.

Best way to go is to get a fly rod with full sink line, go out in a float tube and proceed to catch tons of fish with any retrieve you need to use. But at a price differential of $600 to $10-$15 the bobber rig is not a bad first option.

One thing on hook sets. I have found that trout usually hit in two way with these flies: either with a good hard jolt or they just come up and hold on to it and it feels like you just went through syrup. With the jolt strikes they set themselves so I just tighten up and real them in, but with the syrup strike I use an easy sweep set, nothing sharp and jerky, and just keep the line tight. Hope it helps.

 

[J-bass]

Fishnate, that's great advice too, and I can add all those tricks in to see what works. It seems to me, like with every fishing technique, the individual really needs to find his own way and do what feels the most comfortable and produces the most fish. I'll just have to take my time, try out a bunch of different techniques and see what works and what doesn't! It's one of the very many reasons I love to fish, learn a technique and then make it my own. Thanks again for all the great info on this topic.

 

[nkunz]

I have my best success just tying a loop in the line and attaching a dropper. It does tend to tangle so a lot of people just tie another leader to the bend of the upper hook.

 

[Deuce]

I love everything that everyone has said about the setup, but I don't fish with streamers hardly at all. I'll usually throw on a dry at the end of my leader and call it good. Last week I was knocking them dead with a blue wing (size 20 &22 on 4# test). Renegades work really well too, even after they're falling apart.
The only thing is... I usually fish late in the afternoon. If the fish are rising at all I'll go with a dry fly and drag it in super slow. Usually if I see wake coming off my bubble it's too fast, but the fish will "tell you" what speed is good.

Last week I was giving my buddy another blue wing that I had, so I stopped my retrieval. When I started reeling in again I had a fish on. My point... go slow, but try different speeds of slow.

PS I like to fish my ultra light rod... the fish feel bigger!

 

[J-bass]

PS I like to fish my ultra light rod... the fish feel bigger!

That's always a fun way to go!!! I also like using really light line too, to make it more challenging. Seems like a monster, but it's only 12"!

 

[visser]

For fly and bubble, I like these torpedo floats: http://www.shootnhunt.com/catalog/J...bow_fishing_floats_accessories/0362-0013.html

They have them at Sportman's Warehouse and at Sports Authority. They weigh a decent amount and cast well. Like GrandpaD, I attach a snap on the end of the leader to make it easier changing out flies.

So far I have just used regular fishing line as the leader. I will try the recommendations here for using fly fishing leaders. I have had a lot of success with fly & bubble, but I have never got into larger fish with it. Maybe the larger fish can see the leader and only the dumb little ones are willing to go for it. :shock: :lol: