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In talking about flood irrigating and sprinkler irrigating often it is two different water sources. High water coming from run off, rivers, streams, etc. While most sprinkler irrigating is from wells. Granted some of the high water does and is supposed to filter into the aquifers where the wells get their water from but a lot of farmers don't flood irrigate with their wells, (some do), and it is hard, not impossible, but harder to sprinkler irrigate with high water.

A lot of the high water that was used for gardens is decreasing also as there are not as many, at least in the Cedar area, that have gardens. The street I grew up on almost everyone had gardens and flood irrigated them from the coal creek water, but now I will bet you could count the number of gardens on that street on one hand.
 
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my point was simply a flood irrigated field does use less water annually when turned into a bunch of houses than the field being flood irrigated.
This is what I meant by saying that some of what you want is happening.

Take the 400 acre feet of water that my wife's family sold to the city, 400 acre feet of water will water 100 acres of land, the amount of houses that you can put on that 100 acres will usually use less than 400 acres of water.
 
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There are 325,851 gallons of water in an acre foot. When I had three teenagers at home in a 2 story house with a full basement I was averaging less than 150,000 gallons per year. I know this because we are on a unique water system that is spring water from the mountain and we had to meter the water we used.
 
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Critter, The fact that the GSL is a terminal body of water is the exact problem we are talking about. To date it was not considered "beneficial use" to allow water into the lake bed. That needs to change.
Here is some useful links for you




Between the environmental, ecological, economical, and air quality issues that will occur with the GSL drying up, it's well worth doing what we can to save it. Quite honestly how you can be a sportsman and ask what significance it has, specifically to waterfowl, as I said, can't help you if you simply want to ignore such things.

And there in not one thing in any of those articles other than information about the GSL that points to why fresh water should be dumped into it to turn it into salt water.

I'll give you the fact that waterfowl use it and that it would be a loss for them. But why should people give up their fresh water that is more useful and that everyone can use for letting the water to run into a a basin like the GSL when there are other more useful purposes that the water can be used for?

Then how about the Sevier River drainage? What is going to be done with it? I know it isn't the GSL but isn't that water just as important as what flows into the GSL? If it wasn't for the agriculture use of that water it would just drain into the west desert.

You also need to address the aquifers that the agriculture community draws most of it's water from out of wells. What is being done to replace that water? Las Vegas wants to tap into one of the largest aquifers in the west out of the west desert to feed its thirsty consumption of water. While none of the above is surface water it is just as important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
And there in not one thing in any of those articles other than information about the GSL that points to why fresh water should be dumped into it to turn it into salt water.

I'll give you the fact that waterfowl use it and that it would be a loss for them. But why should people give up their fresh water that is more useful and that everyone can use for letting the water to run into a a basin like the GSL when there are other more useful purposes that the water can be used for?

Then how about the Sevier River drainage? What is going to be done with it? I know it isn't the GSL but isn't that water just as important as what flows into the GSL? If it wasn't for the agriculture use of that water it would just drain into the west desert.

You also need to address the aquifers that the agriculture community draws most of it's water from out of wells. What is being done to replace that water? Las Vegas wants to tap into one of the largest aquifers in the west out of the west desert to feed its thirsty consumption of water. While none of the above is surface water it is just as important.
Habitat, air quality, the economy. This isn't hard Critter. Why save any winter range for mule deer and elk when people can find a beneficial use of housing and development right? Let's get rid of conservation easements, WMA, and protected land because it would be more beneficial to us in houses. That's what you're saying. You're being extremely anti-conservation with your take here. The GSL is extremely important to waterfowl, both game and non-game species. Just because it's water and not land doesn't mean there isn't valuable habitat and also benefits to people within it. As for aquifers we can also talk about those, but the main discussion here is diverted running water across the landscape.
 

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Just to add a little more, according to google, and if it's on google it must be true, the average household uses 300 gallons per day times 365 that would be 109,500 gallons per year, if this is somewhat accurate then the 400 acre feet of water we sold to the city could provide water to 1190 households, or part of one golf course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Just to add a little more, according to google, and if it's on google it must be true, the average household uses 300 gallons per day times 365 that would be 109,500 gallons per year, if this is somewhat accurate then the 400 acre feet of water we sold to the city could provide water to 1190 households, or part of one golf course.
Now golf courses, those are another subject entirely.
 

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And there in not one thing in any of those articles other than information about the GSL that points to why fresh water should be dumped into it to turn it into salt water.
In addition to the obvious wildlife benefits, there are a number of globally strategic resources derived from a viable GSL:
1. US Mag- is the sole magnesium producer in the US. Magnesium the lightest metal is critical in many metal alloys used in everyday life and importantly in national defense. They also are producing titanium again important in many industries.
2. Compass Minerals- one of the few producers globally of sulphate of potash (SOP). A highly desirable potassium component in agricultural fertilizers. They are also now getting into the lithium business based on the brine from the lake to supply the battery industry.
3. Brine Shrimp- the brine shrimp eggs from GSL supply almost 50% of the global demand. The baby brine shrimp are the first food source for all farmed shrimp and numerous farmed fish species.

I hope this helps explain how a viable GSL helps humanity not only locally but also globally.
 

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To throw another wrench into your plans.

What gives the right to the Wasatch Front to take water from the Green and Colorado River drainage's?

Isn't the water on that side of the mountain just as important as it is on the Wasatch Front? Are the Salt Lake water users going to have to give back their water rights like you would like others to do?


In addition to the obvious wildlife benefits, there are a number of globally strategic resources derived from a viable GSL:
1. US Mag- is the sole magnesium producer in the US. Magnesium the lightest metal is critical in many metal alloys used in everyday life and importantly in national defense. They also are producing titanium again important in many industries.
2. Compass Minerals- one of the few producers globally of sulphate of potash (SOP). A highly desirable potassium component in agricultural fertilizers. They are also now getting into the lithium business based on the brine from the lake to supply the battery industry.
3. Brine Shrimp- the brine shrimp eggs from GSL supply almost 50% of the global demand. The baby brine shrimp are the first food source for all farmed shrimp and numerous farmed fish species.

I hope this helps explain how a viable GSL helps humanity not only locally but also globally.

I believe that I did mention mineral extraction as on of the uses for the GLS.
 

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To throw another wrench into your plans.

What gives the right to the Wasatch Front to take water from the Green and Colorado River drainage's?

Isn't the water on that side of the mountain just as important as it is on the Wasatch Front? Are the Salt Lake water users going to have to give back their water rights like you would like others to do?





I believe that I did mention mineral extraction as on of the uses for the GLS.
Because as part of the Colorado River Compact Utah has water rights they have not used, and the water is owned by the State. What gave the right of the front range in Colorado the right to take Colorado River water from the pacific drainage to the Atlantic side? What gave the Central Utah project to move water from the Strawberry drainage (Pacific) to flow into the Provo drainage which drains into the terminal lake called the GSL. In each case the State "decided" it was in the best interest of the citizens of that particular state.

In the end.... follow the money. The smart people are looking to the future not the past.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
To throw another wrench into your plans.

What gives the right to the Wasatch Front to take water from the Green and Colorado River drainage's?

Isn't the water on that side of the mountain just as important as it is on the Wasatch Front? Are the Salt Lake water users going to have to give back their water rights like you would like others to do?





I believe that I did mention mineral extraction as on of the uses for the GLS.
You’ve thrown no wrenches into any plans, you just want to willfully ignore the value of the GSL.
 

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You want to talk about a plant that needs extensive water to grow, then look at Phragmites. It is all over Northern Utah, in almost every ditch, canal or river that flows to the GSL. It is also all over the GSL lakebed too. I do realize alfalfa takes a lot of water too. I’m not suggesting do nothing at all to protect the GSL, I just think there’s no way to get the lake back unless Mother Nature kicks in fast and does her part. I have spent countless hours around the GSL for the last 32 years and have watched it disappear before my eyes. It’s quite sad to be honest.
 

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The value of US MAG is the number one producer of pollution in Utah. Or very close to the top. How does that work for your conservation model #1deer? The GSL is an important part of the SL valley and Utah. Amazing how it was full for decades until the unmitigated growth happened? When the Ogden, Salt Lake and Utah county area were predominantly farms the GSL was healthy and viable. What changed? 😁
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
You want to talk about a plant that needs extensive water to grow, then look at Phragmites. It is all over Northern Utah, in almost every ditch, canal or river that flows to the GSL. It is also all over the GSL lakebed too. I do realize alfalfa takes a lot of water too. I’m not suggesting do nothing at all to protect the GSL, I just think there’s no way to get the lake back unless Mother Nature kicks in fast and does her part. I have spent countless hours around the GSL for the last 32 years and have watched it disappear before my eyes. It’s quite sad to be honest.
Phragmites are another thing we need to be much more aggressive in fighting, again, that's going to take funding and the current approach is not nearly aggressive enough.
The value of US MAG is the number one producer of pollution in Utah. Or very close to the top. How does that work for your conservation model #1deer? The GSL is an important part of the SL valley and Utah. Amazing how it was full for decades until the unmitigated growth happened? When the Ogden, Salt Lake and Utah county area were predominantly farms the GSL was healthy and viable. What changed? 😁
Do you want to contend that it's growth when winters have obviously drastically changed right before your eyes due to the climate warming and drying in the region? Again, I have not said growth is not a part of it, but it is far from the much more significant parts that are contributing to the lake drying up. The reason the lake is drying up is because there is far less water to go around overall, and we need to be focusing much harder on what we do with the water we do have.

Maybe dehydrated water is a good option for these folks to drink? It’s beyond a joke to see how developers are destroying this state.
Then maybe we should stop electing Republican Real Estate developers to the state legislature. Really great to see Ken Ivory back! (sarcasm) All that man cares about is development, using government to pay for firms he goes to work for, selling public lands and being a slime ball politician. He quite literally took tax funds to pay for the place he left the legislature to work for and is back in government now. Must need some more funding to pay himself and his friends. Maybe Utah voters could stop so blindly voting for people who are pro-development because they have an R next to their name and change the dynamics of the state legislature so we can see more moderate approaches in the state. As it stands, you have a legislature that is very pro growth, and believing a resource is only valuable if we can use and abuse it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #57 ·

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You wrote the following-Do you want to contend that it's growth when winters have obviously drastically changed right before your eyes due to the climate warming and drying in the region? Again, I have not said growth is not a part of it, but it is far from the much more significant parts that are contributing to the lake drying up. The reason the lake is drying up is because there is far less water to go around overall, and we need to be focusing much harder on what we do with the water we do have.
Here is data from the NOAA on our average precipitation
Font Rectangle Parallel Electric blue Plot



Here is the population of Utah in 1960 and again in 2020-
1960- 900,000 people
2020- 3.28 million people.

If the average precipitation is holding steady over those 60 years and the population has tripled you will continue to argue it’s not a significant issue when it comes to water? Climate change has increased temps but the historical average remains close to the same for precipitation #1deer. The reason the lake is drying up is that it’s being used beneficially before it gets to the GSL to hydrate, feed and employ the extra 2.38 million plus people living in Utah now!
 

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More facts to consider-
19,000 farms in Utah in 1960 and a total of 13.6 million acres in farms
18,400 farms in Utah in 2017 and 10.8 million acres in farms. So we’ve lost roughly 3 million acres of farmland and replaced that with almost 2.4 million people. But that doesn’t affect the GSL or other watersheds in the state? At least not significantly right? 🙄
 
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