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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
This one looks normal right?


More nice symmetry.


Interesting, its his left side that is weak too. And he has a fibroma on his chest.


I guess everyone is weak on the left side.


So we see the same thing 150 miles from here as well. You don't think its because of all of the herbicides used on the "habitat projects" do you? The view from 100 yards from these deer, down onto the winter range. There have been square miles of cedars taken out, and lots of herbicides sprayed to counter the ensuing weed infestations. Those rows are piles of junipers that were taken out.


If this one stays on my spot through October, I might take him home.


What do ya know, this one is weak on the left as well.


Found these two guys feeding on treated fence lines on the way home.


Roses? Better kill those. For the sake of the wildlife......
 

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Took the kids up to Cascade Springs last weekend. I noticed a good amount of treated vegetation on the sides of the road on the Alpine Loop on the way up from Provo Canyon. We didn't see any deer, but it was the middle of the day and 95 degrees.
 

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Discussion Starter · #123 ·
Took the kids up to Cascade Springs last weekend. I noticed a good amount of treated vegetation on the sides of the road on the Alpine Loop on the way up from Provo Canyon. We didn't see any deer, but it was the middle of the day and 95 degrees.
This year everything is getting sprayed heavier than in years past, so its much more noticeable. I thought last year was a big increase, but it pales in comparison to the spraying this year. I'm hearing the same thing about places in ID, MT, and WY as well.

Here is the ridiculous part of road side spraying. It is done in many cases to create a lane for drivers to see wildlife entering the highway, with the goal of reducing auto/wildlife accidents. Yet the treated vegetation draws in the deer, and increases accidents. And deer that are affected by herbicides stick around on the road side to lick salt and magnesium chloride further concentrating deer on the road side, and causing more accidents.

I way under estimated road side mortality. The number of 20,000 a year killed on Utah highways is probably a conservative estimate. If you walk high risk sections of road there are a lot of dead deer that make it 20-50 yards off the side of the road, that never get counted with those 20,000.
 

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We were up around Eden last week and we counted 3 trucks with sprayers on them just sitting in different areas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #125 ·
We were up around Eden last week and we counted 3 trucks with sprayers on them just sitting in different areas.
The picture in this thread of the Trees Inc truck is at the Maverick in Eden. They have the Rocky Mountain Power contract, and were just finishing spraying I will document at a later date. The Ogden Valley is ground zero for a lot of this. The county got money, so they have increased spraying on county roads. Same goes for UDOT and all the state roads. Then there is the power line right of way that runs over North Ogden divide(cactus bucks all over in North Ogden) and up through the Middle Fork WMA. It has been sprayed several times on several sections over the last few years. Lots of ground work at Powder Mountain and Nordic Valley with lots of spraying there as well. And then you have several cattle ranches to the East end of the valley that have been spraying to remove brush.

This buck was at the Wheeler creek trail head, across from the water treatment plant. A lot of these pictures are from Ogden Valley, and nearby.


There has been a lot of work at the treatment plant, and all disturbed dirt was sprayed. Most of Ogden canyon has been sprayed. This includes the road, some power lines, and sections of the pipeline that run down the canyon on the North side.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking half a penis, and your testicles grown sideways is a bad thing?

Most deer seen with these testicular birth defects have asymmetrical, and abnormal antler development, with some of them also having under bites. But most under bites are found in does in the same areas. This is a piece of the high buck to doe ratios.
 

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I way under estimated road side mortality. The number of 20,000 a year killed on Utah highways is probably a conservative estimate. If you walk high risk sections of road there are a lot of dead deer that make it 20-50 yards off the side of the road, that never get counted with those 20,000.
Baseless!

No evidence what so ever to get to 20k.

Never in history has 20k deer died on Utah's roads.

What percentage of accidents with deer result in death or injury to a person? How many people die per yr in deer car accidents?

How many insurance claims are made in Utah per year as a result of deer being hit? About 2000 is the highest it ever been. Ever!

So only one in 10 drivers are making a claim when they hit a deer? I doubt that.

Fact is its not speed or amount of traffic that dictates how many deer are being hit. But the amount of deer present. More deer equals more roadkill. So roadkill is lower today then it was in the 80s.
 

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How many insurance claims are made in Utah per year as a result of deer being hit? About 2000 is the highest it ever been. Ever!

So only one in 10 drivers are making a claim when they hit a deer? I doubt that.
I've never, ever turned in a claim after hitting a deer. Damage caused wasn't worth the deductible. Haven't hit very many ... but I have hit several :(

-DallanC
 

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The 20,000 is not a count either. Just another flawed estimation. Some fools have tried to estimate it as high as 70k per yr.

20k is 50 deer a day. Not really because most roadkill happens in the winter when deer are down by the roads. So more like 80 or so a day in the winter months. That is really laughable.

Again there are plenty of reliable statistics to show thee aren't 50 to 80 cars being dented up a day. The auto insurance industry wouldn't stand for it.
 

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The 20,000 is not a count either. Just another flawed estimation. Some fools have tried to estimate it as high as 70k per yr.

20k is 50 deer a day. Not really because most roadkill happens in the winter when deer are down by the roads. So more like 80 or so a day in the winter months. That is really laughable.

Again there are plenty of reliable statistics to show thee aren't 50 to 80 cars being dented up a day. The auto insurance industry wouldn't stand for it.
I just don't understand why they don't move the deer crossing signs away from populated areas.. That would solve everything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #130 ·
The 20,000 is not a count either. Just another flawed estimation. Some fools have tried to estimate it as high as 70k per yr.

20k is 50 deer a day. Not really because most roadkill happens in the winter when deer are down by the roads. So more like 80 or so a day in the winter months. That is really laughable.

Again there are plenty of reliable statistics to show thee aren't 50 to 80 cars being dented up a day. The auto insurance industry wouldn't stand for it.
I've seen 20 come off of a 10 mile section of I-80 in two days, they remove them by the trailer loads. Depending on the area, the contractors pick up 3 times a week, and use tandem axle trailers for the high frequency areas.

The deer are drawn to the roads, which like you said drives mortality. And many of these roads see all of their mortality in the spring and summer. You sound like me a few years ago. Spend some serious time looking at road kill on roads, and you will change your tune. Just one 50 mile section that I am on almost every day, has at least one mortality every other day, do the math. I know of a shorter stretch in Montana that sees 2 deer a day hit all year long. Where I use to live in Cache valley, there were 1-2 deer hit every day, all year long on my route to work. I had a neighbor that had hit 4 in one year.

Over the last decade me and wife have hit 4 deer, only one was an insurance claim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #131 ·
More nice symmetry




More geophagia.
 

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So Dallan has hit several and never made a claim and LT has hit 4 and one claimed 1. That antidotal evidence is still a far cry from 1 in 10 being reported.

You guys love to site studies.

Do some research. It's been studied time and time again. In the name of public/hwy safety. USU are the ones that have tried to put roadkill as a limiting factor to the statewide deer herd.
 
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Discussion Starter · #133 ·
"Baseless!

No evidence what so ever to get to 20k.

Never in history has 20k deer died on Utah's roads"--Iron Bear

In 2008 there were 4209 road killed deer collected.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13982844 That is real deer that were actually collected, and reported, not estimated. That's more than twice as many as you claim are reported to insurance companies. We only had 275,000 deer in 2008, so mortality will have increased since then. In two stretches of highway I look at regularly, for every deer picked up, they miss 1-2 more that made it a significant distance from the road.

Contractors in Utah county have put in requests at a waste transfer station to dispose of 50-100 road killed deer a month. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/528242/DISPOSAL-WOES-KILL-COMPETITION-OLD-FIRM-GETS-ROAD-KILL-CONTRACT.html?pg=all That is 600 to 1200 road kills a year just for one contracted section of road in Utah County. Deer are not actively collected everywhere.

"What percentage of accidents with deer result in death or injury to a person? How many people die per yr in deer car accidents?"--Iron Bear Answer: 4-8 deaths per year in Utah.

"Fact is its not speed or amount of traffic that dictates how many deer are being hit. But the amount of deer present. More deer equals more roadkill. So roadkill is lower today then it was in the 80s"--Iron Bear

The fact is that deer, elk, bighorn sheep, antelope, and moose were not concentrated on the highway in the 1980s like they are now. Because of increased herbicide use, and the resulting mineral draw, they are concentrated on the road side. Look at Thompson Falls Montana bighorn sheep, as just one extreme example of this: http://www.mdt.mt.gov/other/research/external/docs/research_proj/BIGHORN_SHEEP-HWY_200-2013.PDF These sheep hang out on the side of the road licking salt off the road. And just like Utah highways with high mortality, this area has multiple right of ways that come through the area, that are sprayed with herbicides. There are pictures in the report of the cleared power line right of ways. And researchers in Montana have documented the associated malformations in this area as well.

And just like in Thompson Falls, when they completed highway work, vehicle mortality increased near Jordanelle: http://www.cnr.usu.edu/files/uploads/faculty/Bissonette/bissonette%20mule%20deere.pdf It increased from 12 deer per year to 174 deer. This is because they use a ton of herbicides on any disturbed soils during and after construction, which draws these deer in.

Highway mortality, is driven by the same pesticide use that causes the malformations that I and others document. You treat highways with herbicides, it draws in deer. The affected deer then stick around on the highway to lick salt(magnesium chloride and other minerals) which keeps them in proximity to the road, which drives vehicle mortality. On many of these treated sections of highway, deer densities drop, the further you get from the road.

I am actually doing research, on paper, and in the field. I'm not just clicking like on internet posts.
 
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