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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After the wildlife board meeting it's obvious we need to have some deep discussion on elk. I as a sportsmen don't believe elk numbers are far out of hand, however it seems our hunts which just keep getting more and more pressure pushing them where we don't want them. So what is in order to fix this? Cutting tags for less pressure and greater success? Ways to somehow compensate them? Better access? A smaller CWMU program?
 

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After the wildlife board meeting it's obvious we need to have some deep discussion on elk. I as a sportsmen don't believe elk numbers are far out of hand, however it seems our hunts which just keep getting more and more pressure pushing them where we don't want them. So what is in order to fix this? Cutting tags for less pressure and greater success? Ways to somehow compensate them? Better access? A smaller CWMU program?
Those are some good ideas thrown out and I have a few more. I especially like the greater access. Those elk are gonna be where they want to be regardless of where we want them to be. We just need to have access, somehow! And we as hunters need to fully appreciate that access by conducting ourselves in manners that are legal, respectful, and sensible.
 

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It starts with all parties having a clear understanding of what the actual problem is.

The problem is not the elk, the problem is that these guys are loosing AUM's to the Feds. The Fed is done with the Cliven bundy's of the world. To them these ranchers who rely on public grazing/water rights are Cliven bundy's. The permits they spoke of as constitutional rights are a thorn in big governments side.

Consider this hypothetical question, if we were to eliminate every single elk off the southwest desert, would the Yardleys get their AUM's back? I'm willing to bet my bottom dollar they wouldn't.

So that being considered, it's not the elk, it's the BLM range guy using the elk as an excuse to take away their livelihood.

Solutions? Here's a couple short term, and a long term.

#1 a $5 increase in all tags issued by the division, this money is specifically earmarked for agricultural damage. It cannot be used for anything else period.

#2 to qualify for the money the ag guys must enroll in a private land access program allowing sportsmen to come manage the game causing the issue. This is done with a LE draw program where sportsmen apply complete an ethics course and sign a waiver that states they will be responsible on the persons property and if not will suffer consequences.

When a complaint is received, local sportsmen's groups are contacted and hunters who have completed the program are given the opportunity to harvest some game.

Long term? Groups with political pull recognize that just like the wolf is a threat to wildlife, range management is as well. We are loosing animals and our hunting opportunity to this and it should be addressed at the federal level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I agree it's a BLM forest service problem , but it is the cattlemen causing it. If they wouldn't jump on the feds with their pitchforks and actually work with them in a civil manner things would go better.
 

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Biggest problem with the public lands grazing program is it costs the government at least $2 to receive $1 back. The feds don't want to continue it but unless the Taylor Grazing Act is repealed their hands are tied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you'd like 1eye I can send you the legal note I sent in for publication last month on the public land grazing. It is a brief but thorough over view of the problem.
Yeah send it
 

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I agree it's a BLM forest service problem , but it is the cattlemen causing it. If they wouldn't jump on the feds with their pitchforks and actually work with them in a civil manner things would go better.
You don't think the cattlemen haven't been trying?
The problem is that many of the government workers/decision makers are always changing positions every couple years, so the cattlemen or land owners can and will never be able to develop any type of relationship with any of these government decision makers to work anything out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
You don't think the cattlemen haven't been trying?
The problem is that many of the government workers/decision makers are always changing positions every couple years, so the cattlemen or land owners can and will never be able to develop any type of relationship with any of these government decision makers to work anything out.
I believe they've done a lot of whining down here over the last few years, I don't think I would call what I've seen working with them but more just bitching and moaning. I understand their frustration but if your constantly demeaning local officials for the Forest service and BLM I doubt they will be getting far. Sure policies they have can be an issue, but I've seen a situation where a cattlemen ran his cows in areas where they shouldn't have and a local official "couldn't find" their information to let them graze at all the next season and they never went on The mountain last year. It's butting heads between individuals locally that is partially causing these problems as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You make it sound so easy.
It's not easy, but it also is a lot more complicated than need be because everyone on 10 different sides have an agenda.
 

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Bottom line :

Utahs ' glorious ' elk days are gone.

Guys sitting on 10 plus elk points---------Life sucks.
 

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Bottom line :

Utahs ' glorious ' elk days are gone.

Guys sitting on 10 plus elk points---------Life sucks.
Just curious, with all your doom and gloom why do you even get out of bed in the morning? With the end of life as we know it upon us.
 

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I get out of bed in the moring to go hunting Mcfly...........

Been home for 3 hrs now since friday and headed back out now
to sit in the turkey blind to see if my youngest boy can pull off a bird with his bow.

And you?
 

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I don't think I want to get out of bed anymore. Nothing worth living for. No elk on the Wasatch, elk hunting is dead. There's no point anymore...
 
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