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Do you think it is likely?

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http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/news/08-01/poach.php
In this case it states that SEVERAL Poachings have been reported in the Vernal area? How many of you suspect that this foul play is brought about from those employed by the oil company? I have read about several cases in Wyoming where non residents who work in the oil fields claim to not be aware of the local game laws and claim ignorance on illegal harvests and recreational killing. In one of the specific cases in Wyoming a non resident oil field worker actually ran down pronghorn with a company truck and intentionally killed the animal. I believe that people can rationalize that in their specific location the game population is abundant enough that the absence of a few unsuspecting animals wouldn't hurt. Vernal is a small town and many of those who work in the oil fields come from larger citys where they are used to having a little more "fun" in their larger citys.
My other question is if non residents who work for the oil company are the ones responsible for the poaching incidents, is it fair to request that they (the oil company) inform their employees about Utah game laws?
 

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I don't think so.

Vernal is a small town and therefore breeds small town mentality. In small towns all over the norm for many generations was to practice that kind of behavior when it comes to wildlife. I think poaching is a skill that is handed down from generation to generation and quite common across thye nation. The small town local boys have been doing it for ever and not geting caught because they know the land owners, know the land, and know how to get it done and not get caught. As long as there is "good ol' boys" in small towns there will be poaching going on. Not to say some of the transient workforce isn't guilty of the crime, but I think local folk are the majority of the offenders.
 

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THere is no excuse for poaching, the oil field workers no its against the law and I don't even know if they are the ones that did this stuff. Could be some coyote hunter that decided after not seeing anything to start killing what ever he saw. And the only reason your here about people in smaller towns poaching is because they are usually located next to mts. that have easy access to a lot of animals. In vernals case we are actually minutes away from good country that goes on for miles and I am sure it is very hard to watch all of the country to stop this stuff. It is a shame though. Last year when all those trophy class bucks were poached on diamond mtn. my buddy is the one that turned all of those kids in, it is a shame it happens, these kids just left those deer to rot and then bragged about it in town. -)O(-
 

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I think Tex-o-Bob nailed it right on. I grew up in a small town that experienced a mining boom. The "mine trash" got blamed for a lot of poaching activities. And they probably did some. But it was the locals, the good 'ol boys, that took it to an art form and even did it professionally. And everything Tex mentioned is exactly true. A few minors would go and pop a deer or antelope here and there, but the locals were taking a dozen elkin Hoss's back 400 acres and running full blown poaching guide services for bighorns, goats, and trophey mule deer and elk in the back country. When I was on my mission, my Dad sent me the newspaper articles documenting the arrest and conviction of my high school football line coach, for running a full-blown poaching guide service. He grew up in the area, and was a good ol' boy in every sense. In a single year, his "guide service" took more than a dozen bighorns, leaving 6 to rot because they were not quite a full curl. It took Fish and Game infiltrating as clients to finally bust the guy. It makes me sick to think of everything else he was part of.

Anyway, my experience in a small town supports that it is the locals that are more responsible than the miners or oil field workers, or whatever transplants happen to be in the area.
 

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Having grown up in a small town, locals are more likely to poach due to "opportunity" to do so. The temptation is greater for a "local" miles from another person. Folks in the city don't get the "opportunity" to poach as often as "locals". I do believe though, when 'new folk' move into rural areas like oil fields, they DO poach as often as the "locals".

I am some what troubled when I see comments blaming the limited entry program as the "cause" of poaching. I was a teenager in the early 80's, when there were more deer and MORE TAGS available, and LE wasn't even on the radar, yet poaching took place EVERY year. This was also BEFORE the so-called "trophy hunter" syndrome started "ruining" hunting. :roll:
 

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proutdoors said:
I am some what troubled when I see comments blaming the limited entry program as the "cause" of poaching. I was a teenager in the early 80's, when there were more deer and MORE TAGS available, and LE wasn't even on the radar, yet poaching took place EVERY year. This was also BEFORE the so-called "trophy hunter" syndrome started "ruining" hunting. :roll:
Oh come one Pro, surely you aren't this naive...we both know the money involved in and being paid for trophy animals. Do you honestly think that the money given for trophy antlers hasn't increased dramatically?

Read this brand new article:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A966958260
 

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I don't think it's responsible to "blame" LE for poaching. But, it certainly creates more for the poacher to choose from and better poached trophies to brag about.

Suppy and demand, it's simple really. As long as there are big critters out there to temp folks, there will be poaching going on. A good friend and client of mine is a fish cop in Salina. Two years ago they had record snowfall right at the time of the deer hunt. There were a few poaching violations that he was involved in and he said the majority of them were good guys with no priors and good reputations for being law abiding sportsmen. These were guys he knew personally. But the snow forced a lot of big bucks right down near town and the temptation was just too much for some guys and they broke tha law.
 

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I am saying, to pin this on "trophy hunters" "taking over" is nonsensical. Poaching has been around my whole life, and I am sure it happened before I was born. I'll even go so far to say that I believe poaching was MORE common 20 years ago that it is now. This is due to fewer "opportunities" to poach, and improved methods of catching the dirty SOB's. To blame it on "trophy hunters" and the limited entry program is inane.
 

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Nice wyo2ut, you now are referring us to ANTI-HUNTING propaganda sites. :roll: The site you linked to is C.A.S.H., Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting. I am sure there is no spin or agenda being pushed by these 'good friends' of yours, right? :evil: How about a few links to H.S. and PETA while your at it?
 

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Pro i will buy that poaching was happening in force 20 years ago. But the dwr and the enforcment of the laws were much more lax toward poachers alot of the same laws were in effect, but judges were not passing down sentences or just slaps on the wrist. Now im am not saying their was not the ocassional example set and a good punishment was handed down. However it was the exception not the rule. It was in some of the older crowds minds that it was their right to poach, Or so they would boast about bringing home and illegal buck and closing the blinds and have it in the freezer within an hour. I found this appalling, however the feeling was, "a nice buck was cool", but the meat was more important the change is that the animal is only taken for sport the meat is left to rot. Now really Whats the diffrence poaching is poaching Wheteher it is for meat or antlers the animal was illegally killed. However i believe you will get people poaching animals just to defy the UDWR and the system that has been created to shove them out of what they beileve is their right to hunt. and the UDWR is pressing poachers harder than it ever has in history starting with the succsess of the LE hunt WHY? Money. Jugdments are strict, and now extend across state lines, you poach in utah lose your right to hunt in a multitude of states. This in my mind is right! you should loose your rights, but i do not believe that the intentions of the dwr are as pure as they let on. Trophy hunting is important! As is all diffrent kinds of hunting without diversity where would we be? But the thought being is that the UDWR is catering to the trophy hunter only, with good reason its smart buisness. The Non res or the res for that matter that will stop hunting utah because of the 70 dollar bonus point, is inconsiquental to the UDWR weed them out, to allow the big money hunters to pay top dollar for the tags, it is smart however in doing so they forgot that they work for everyone not just the big dollar hunters. Can you tell i am still POed about having to buy a utah license for a bonus point? :cry: :cry: Ps i am still wondering what to do with my moose oil points only have a few but it valluable time to build them up now at this rate i will have paid many thousands of dollars just to get the tag. :x
 

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My thoughts are that the trophy poachers are the ones that take most of the blame for poaching but do LESS than the MEAT poachers by a LONG WAYS!!!

People come accross the deer or elk that was left to rot and the head was taken. That gets publicized and it shows how hunters are no good terrible people who waste wildife. The fact is that there are a FEW no good terrible people who make the rest of us look bad.

On the other hand, the ones that poach for meat, leave nothing to have people happen upon and they take the evidence home with them. Bottom line is no one knows that they just shot 5 does last night and so the blame goes no where.

I believe as was mentioned that the local small town "good guy" does MUCH more damage in the area of poaching than the guy who follows big bucks around and then kills it. The small town guy is a poaching machine but doesnt think what he is doing is wrong.
 

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I put that I think its likely. They're way out in the middle of nowhere working on a rig. I think they have just as much opportunity to take out deer, antelope or whatever as some local driving out from town. Do the locals poach?? Heck yeah, like anyone else with small town backgrounds, I know they do. There always seems to be the "good ol boy" network in these little towns. I know I've snagged a few bass and gills from some farm ponds back in the day when I lived in the sticks. Would the owner have been bent about me fishing there?? Probably not, but being a mischievious little s**t, I didn't intend to find out. Thats minor but I'm sure like Garyfish said, some of the stuff goes on in full swing behind the scenes. Is it all out of staters?? I have no idea but I'd say probably not.
 

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To blame it on "trophy hunters" and the limited entry program is inane.
First Pro, I don't think anyone even said the word "trophy hunters" until you brought it up.

Second when I think of LE hunters I don't think of "trophy hunters". 5% of the guys who hold LE tags every year might be in that class but most are just average everyday hunters who finally got enough points.

Also having grown up in a graduating class of 89 people I would say the local boys made up a large portion of the pochers however the ones I knew of when I was younger (and should have turned in back then) were killing just to kill, does, spikes, fawns. Shooting forkies and leaving them to find something bigger.......not taking any meat. A lot of archery guys just sticking arrows in anything that moved. You may have your Jed Clampets out there filling the freezer whenever they please but I wouldn't go so far to say meat hunters crave that meat so bad that it tempts them to poach.
 

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elk22hunter said:
My thoughts are that the trophy poachers are the ones that take most of the blame for poaching but do LESS than the MEAT poachers by a LONG WAYS!!!

People come accross the deer or elk that was left to rot and the head was taken. That gets publicized and it shows how hunters are no good terrible people who waste wildife. The fact is that there are a FEW no good terrible people who make the rest of us look bad.

On the other hand, the ones that poach for meat, leave nothing to have people happen upon and they take the evidence home with them. Bottom line is no one knows that they just shot 5 does last night and so the blame goes no where.

I believe as was mentioned that the local small town "good guy" does MUCH more damage in the area of poaching than the guy who follows big bucks around and then kills it. The small town guy is a poaching machine but doesnt think what he is doing is wrong.
I agree.

If you want to see some evidence of major poaching, go down the country roads by Mayfield. You will find heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over the road sides out there. These doe obviously are not being shot for their trophy value.
 

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You have the guy who kills to eat the meat. You then have the ones who just shoot to kill animals for the fun of it; but the worst of all is the ones who just shoot it, cut the head off, and leave the rest to rot.

Most of the meat shooters' are going to operate close to home; it's usually the same with the killing for the fun of it types most of the time.

But while some may disagree with me; I guarantee you the trophy poachers will hang out around the LE units-WHY- Because the controlled harvest leads to a lot more trophy animals that are easily accessible to them, and that's what they are after; so LE units may not cause all poaching it sure attracts more than its share of it for the before mentioned reason.

If you want to see some evidence of major poaching, go down the country roads by Mayfield. You will find heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over the road sides out there. These doe obviously are not being shot for their trophy value.
Some of those carcasses might be poached but if it's around hunting season you might be surprised at the people who are too lazy to properly dispose of a carcasses, they just drive into the rural areas and dump it along side the road.

Oh yeah, I dont think it's fair to group a whole profession (oil Field workers) as being poachers; and IMO most non-resident hunters follow the law.
 

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If you want to see some evidence of major poaching, go down the country roads by Mayfield. You will find heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over the road sides out there. These doe obviously are not being shot for their trophy value.
Sorry, but I am calling BS! I just called my dad and my cousin, both live in Mayfield and both have farms on the "country roads", neither has seen "heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over". :roll: But, I agree most poached animals are not poached because of their living on a LE unit, but because of the opportunity to do so.
 

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proutdoors said:
Nice wyo2ut, you now are referring us to ANTI-HUNTING propaganda sites. :roll: The site you linked to is C.A.S.H., Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting. I am sure there is no spin or agenda being pushed by these 'good friends' of yours, right? :evil: How about a few links to H.S. and PETA while your at it?
Is this your best comeback? Oh come on...go back and look at the article. It is an Associated Press released article...it was NOT written by an anti-hunting group.

Had you spent the time to read the article instead of quickly dismissing it because of which site it was on, you would have seen that most of the information was taken from the Montana fish and wildlife department.

But, if that is not good enough for you, how about this one: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n10001508

I especially like this quote: ""The commercialization of trophy wildlife is one of the biggest problems we have, because the biggest and the best elk are shot dead," said Dale Schaefer, a criminal investigator for the DOW."

There is big money in trophy animals...and a huge underground poaching problem to get those animals.
 

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Wyo2ut, the more and more you post then I thank my lucky stars that your not a biologist. Im glad you couldnt pass the biology classes. You cannot blame everything on trophy hunters or having trophy animals in this state. We need to have stiffer fines for people who get caught and a long prison sentenance so people would think twice before they decided to poach an animal.

The town of Estes Park sits at the entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park. It's not uncommon for poachers to shoot trophy elk that wander outside the park and sell the antlers to businesses such as taxidermy shops, according to the DOW
.

Sounds like they need to get their butts out and patrol the areas a little better. They should go after taxidermy shops who are involved with mounting the animals. If I took a bloody deer skull with a huge rack to a taxidermist this time of year dont you think the taxidermists would be a little suspicious about the animal I was bring to him?
 

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proutdoors said:
If you want to see some evidence of major poaching, go down the country roads by Mayfield. You will find heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over the road sides out there. These doe obviously are not being shot for their trophy value.
Sorry, but I am calling BS! I just called my dad and my cousin, both live in Mayfield and both have farms on the "country roads", neither has seen "heaps of carcasses stacked in piles all over". :roll: But, I agree most poached animals are not poached because of their living on a LE unit, but because of the opportunity to do so.
Go ahead and call BS. I know what I've seen and your dad and cousin can't change that. Because they live there, am I supposed to now think Mayfield is some haven for super ethical hunters? I've seen alot of dirtbags down there, and yes there is a road on the south end where I have found piles of carcasses. If J-bass were still around he could veify this claim, because it was his families cabin we were using that is located right by where I am referring to.
Wish I knew road names, but it has been 2 years since I was last there.
 
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