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It is amazing how so called conservation minded hunters eat their own without even a shallow look into the facts….. SCI has removed Mr. Palmer from its rolls as a member and Pope and Young is set to follow suit.

After years of combing through guide books and attending sportsman's shows I had made up my mind to hunt Africa next year. Long hours of study lead to the friendship with a professional hunter base out of Craig Colorado and my arrangements to hunt. I have become very acquainted with Africa game laws as I have pondered this hunt for many years. When I first seen the reports role in about Cecil and Walter Palmer, some things just did not add up to the PETA version of the facts. One must also keep in mind that the dictator/president of Zimbabwe has through executive order set up a private family/Buddy hunting preserves around Zimbabwe's National Parks. Sound like anyone else we know from Africa? The following are excerpts of what I have found:

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/07/30/a-look-at-lion-hunting-in-zimbabwe
http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/walte...os-video-cubs-theo-bronchorst-trymore-ndlovu/

LAWS
Hunting in Zimbabwe is allowed in safari areas, forestry areas, game ranches and communal lands. The number of lions allowed to be hunted every year is determined by reports of human-lion conflicts. More lions are allowed to be hunted in areas with higher lion-human conflict.

Only males are allowed to be hunted. The killing of females was banned in 2011 to reduce the impact of hunting on the population. There is no restriction on the age of the lions being hunted but these are being considered.

Hunting of lions in Zimbabwe can take place at any time of the year but in state-run areas it is limited to 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset.

The lion must be shot at least 50 meters from a vehicle and must also be 400 meters from a water source.

Lion Aid explains that it is legal to bait lions in Zimbabwe, to shoot them with a bow and arrow from a blind, to kill them outside a national park in a private hunting area and to kill collared lions.

REVENUE
Zimbabwe makes an estimated $20 million a year on trophy hunting, which represents 3.2 percent of its tourism revenue. The vast majority of trophy hunters are foreigners and across Africa, 25-30 percent of trophies go to Europe and 65 percent to the U.S.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimbabwean-authorities-restrict-hunting-lion-killing-164539979.html

___ On Saturday, a lion researcher cast doubt on a report of the shooting death of a male lion who was a companion of Cecil. The satellite collar on the lion named Jericho has been sending normal signals, indicating the lion is alive and moving around, researcher Brent Stapelkamp told That Cecil had befriended Jericho, Stapelkamp said, and together they oversaw two prides, one with three lionesses and seven cubs and another with three lionesses. __

But the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said Jericho was protecting the cubs after Cecil's death until Jericho was also shot dead on August 1.

The charity Lion Aid says on its website that it will be difficult to prosecute the person who paid for the hunt, because the client did what the professional hunter tells him to do.

"A client usually has no idea about the laws and regulations of the country he is hunting in - he just buys a safari and then places himself in the hands of his professional hunter guide. Finding the client could be interesting to let him tell his side of the story, but in terms of legal prosecution this person is hardly important," Lion Aid says.

Statement Given by Walter Palmer:

"In early July, I was in Zimbabwe on a bow hunting trip for big game. I hired several professional guides and they secured all proper permits. To my knowledge, everything about this trip was legal and properly handled and conducted.

I had no idea that the lion I took was a known, local favorite, was collared and part of a study until the end of the hunt. I relied on the expertise of my local professional guides to ensure a legal hunt. I have not been contacted by authorities in Zimbabwe or in the U.S. about this situation, but will assist them in any inquiries they may have. Again, I deeply regret that my pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion."

Why might it be illegal?

"Ongoing investigations to date, suggest that the killing of the lion was illegal since the land owner was not allocated a lion on his hunting quota for 2015," the Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a statement.

"But Cecil was shot in an area not assigned a lion quota. Supposedly the bait was set for a leopard and then Cecil came along. The professional hunter, Theo Bronkhorst told his client to shoot the lion, and then the hunt became illegal," Lion Aid says. "The professional hunter then allegedly attempted to destroy the radiocollar to hide the evidence. Allegedly the client was "furious" when he found that the lion was radiocollared. Allegedly, when a professional hunter engages a client in an area without lion quota, the lion will be listed as hunted in an area that does have quota. This could have been standard practice, but unfortunately Cecil was a well-known lion."

Bronkhorst has denied the charges.

"It was a magnificent, mature lion. We did not know it was well-known lion," he told The Telegraph newspaper. "I had a license for my client to shoot a lion with a bow and arrow in the area where it was shot.

"The concession owner is allegedly related to the Zimbabwe Minister of Transport and will therefore be immune from prosecution."

This is a great read by Time:
http://time.com/3976344/cecil-lion-zimbabwe-walter-palmer/
 

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Good post bigbr.There is going to be a lot of head butting on this topic,I cant see why someone would want to kill a lion out of wanting a trophy and nothing more.I can understand the killing of an animal where the meat will be used,or donated to the villagers,but the killing of a majestic lion is not in my mind set.IMHO only!!
 

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There are alot of unknowns in this. I think the lynch pin for Palmer was the prior case where he took a bear in the wrong area. It certainly has not helped him. Then there are reports that he used a crossbow, but posed with a compound bow. He may well be an innocent party in this, but the amount of doubt surrounding the situation is hefty.

SCI and Pope and Young are making prudent moves that send a strong message. I would expect Palmer to be reinstated should he be cleared in this.
 

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Good post bigbr.There is going to be a lot of head butting on this topic,I cant see why someone would want to kill a lion out of wanting a trophy and nothing more.I can understand the killing of an animal where the meat will be used,or donated to the villagers,but the killing of a majestic lion is not in my mind set.IMHO only!!
It's definitely a hard line to toe. There's this idea we should all be in this together as sportsmen, but I'm not in it with the guys that are solely interested in the "trophy" aspects of an animal.

But out of the same respect, I can't stand some of the celebrities taking this as an opportunity to bash hunting, or late night talk show hosts (Jimmy Kimmel) crying over it and calling it vomotous to hang an animals head on the wall. Comedians have no problem joking about Isis, drugs, etc, and yet choke up over a dead lion? Our country really has become a joke. And you can disagree with the killing of a lion, but all these same people would take exception to leaving a jackrabbit or coyote carcass to waste.

Is it right as a society we simply put a special value on one species and not another? Because we as a society see a lion as majestic makes it more untouchable than other animals?

Now I personally have no urge to ever kill a lion, or many animals for that matter, but I don't think hunting/killing a lion is wrong if done legally. I think whatever laws were broken, both he and the guides should be held responsible, and I don't believe this was done completely legal. However I'm so disgusted by the "Hollywood reaction" that's taken place over the incident, if like to see it turn out to be completely legal. If this was the end of the lion as a species, I would understand the outcry, but it was one lion, will legally be taken care of, and it's time these wonderful talking heads bashing this dentist stepped up and reacted the same way about all the people dying for senseless reasons, and the condition our country is spiraling towards. We have bigger things to worry about in America than Cecil the lion.
 

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I will never defend a person that poaches. I couldn't care less if some view that as 'eating our own', because they are not about what I am. There is room for all types, IMO, when it comes to LEGAL hunting. I don't really have a problem with anyone, whether they be an average Joe just wanting to get outdoors to the hardest core trophy guy. Do what makes you happy...as long as the law allows it.

This guy may very well have knowingly participated in poaching this lion. If he did, I hope they throw the book at him. But there is a very real possibility that the only thing any of these guys did wrong was legally kill a lion that a bunch of bleeding heart tree hugging hypocrites would use to further their idiotic message.

Honestly, I don't have enough information to know where this one falls. And having lived in Zimbabwe and knowing how things work there, I'm not sure we ever will know.
 

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Is it right as a society we simply put a special value on one species and not another? Because we as a society see a lion as majestic makes it more untouchable than other animals?
fwiw, i agree with most of what you said but the statement above.

i value human life over an animal and think that a lion is certainly more untouchable than a rabbit. rabbits are not likely to become extinct during my lifetime, while lions are. neither of those animals would go to waste if i killed them. though, i do draw the line at eating people or housepets.

on this case, i don't have enough info to pass judgement but do have my suspicions.
 

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Another side of the story:
 
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fwiw, i agree with most of what you said but the statement above.

i value human life over an animal and think that a lion is certainly more untouchable than a rabbit. rabbits are not likely to become extinct during my lifetime, while lions are. neither of those animals would go to waste if i killed them. though, i do draw the line at eating people or housepets.

on this case, i don't have enough info to pass judgement but do have my suspicions.
Right, as a society we make those choices based off how we feel, but is it a valid reason in the natural world to value one thing over another? There's plenty of insects, animals, and plants that have went extinct while you've been alive, is it right because we see a lion as majestic to throw such a fit over it and disregard other important species? In reality everything has its link within the ecosystem and IMO the overreaction on some species is ridiculous. I don't want to see the lion gone, and we should value it and never let it go extinct, my point is just because we as a society value it because of how WE feel is a ridiculous stance on the subject and does not make it any more or less important than the other species that we give a pass on. It's a gross exaggeration from some and I find it ridiculous. Legally handle it and get over it, what's done is done.
 
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I didn't know that there was anybody left who gave two craps about B&C, P&Y, or SCI. I guess the concept of "mine is bigger than yours" is deep rooted.-------SS
 
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