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I think we can all learn something from this thread: 1 bad apple can spoil the bunch.


Those conflicts came about because it wasn't illegal.
Now that it IS illegal - why would there be more conflicts? There should be less - because it shouldn't be happening now, and if it is happening, it is illegal!


moose -- I want to feel bad for you, but your logic on these topics is so skewed that I just cannot feel any empathy at all for you. Sorry.
No these conflicts came about because people found salt and other attractants that guys were sitting over and they have a verbal altercation because the one party thought bait was illegal to hunt over.

im not looking for anyone’s sympathy. My logic is skewed? Because I don’t agree with you? Ok....
 

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I'm just going to put this out there. If you're big game hunting in a way that puts you in such reg'ular personal contact with others on the mountain that you can have multiple conflicts or fights, THEN YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Oh Boy! Since we have now stopped baiting, and will further regulate trail cams because they were the WRONG way to hunt and caused multiple conflicts or fights, look out you treestand hunters, pop-up blind hunters, road hunters, long range hunters, deer drive hunters, large group hunters, spike, fork horn and antlerless hunters which also cause multiple conflicts and fights 'cause you've been on the ethic experts' lists for quite some time. Your time is coming! Then when the ethics experts find that regulating hunters' methods doesn't work, they'll get back to the hunter numbers and we'll again hear hunter overcrowding is the problem. 😁
 

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I'm just going to put this out there. If you're big game hunting in a way that puts you in such regular personal contact with others on the mountain that you can have multiple conflicts or fights, then you're doing it wrong.
With the low numbers of wildlife, and what’s left of said wildlife, are only found in certain areas, and people concentrate in these areas, you’re gonna run into more guys. You’re gonna have more conflicts when this happens. New hunters are a major contributing factor in these issues. They have no idea what’s going on, ethics, etiquette or respect for others in the area. Many times, it’s the younger kids causing most of the issues. When guys deliberately try to ruin your hunt, or have entitled attitudes, or KNOW that things are illegal when they aren’t, there will be conflicts. Happens on every mountain range, every year.
 

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Oh Boy! Since we have now stopped baiting, and will further regulate trail cams because they were the WRONG way to hunt and caused multiple conflicts or fights, look out you treestand hunters, pop-up blind hunters, road hunters, long range hunters, deer drive hunters, large group hunters, spike, fork horn and antlerless hunters which also cause multiple conflicts and fights 'cause you've been on the ethic experts' lists for quite some time. Your time is coming! Then when the ethics experts find that regulating hunters' methods doesn't work, they'll get back to the hunter numbers and we'll again hear hunter overcrowding is the problem. 😁
Not sure what my post about liking to stay away from people when I hunt had to do with this or why it spawned your response, but I hope you’ll still have good experiences in the field this year, EFA. We do this stuff to enjoy it. I hope you’re able to.
 

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With the low numbers of wildlife, and what’s left of said wildlife, are only found in certain areas, and people concentrate in these areas, you’re gonna run into more guys. You’re gonna have more conflicts when this happens. New hunters are a major contributing factor in these issues. They have no idea what’s going on, ethics, etiquette or respect for others in the area. Many times, it’s the younger kids causing most of the issues. When guys deliberately try to ruin your hunt, or have entitled attitudes, or KNOW that things are illegal when they aren’t, there will be conflicts. Happens on every mountain range, every year.
Last year I had a very pleasant day of deer hunting where we didn’t see another person until we were back on the main trail close to the parking area. We also didn’t see any bucks, but it was still fun. I left fulfilled and was entirely conflict free. In fact, I’ve never had a conflict hunting big game in my life. So it is possible.

I’ve had a couple in the duck marsh that were unavoidable, but never in the mountains big game hunting.
 

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Last year I had a very pleasant day of deer hunting where we didn’t see another person until we were back on the main trail close to the parking area. We also didn’t see any bucks, but it was still fun. I left fulfilled and was entirely conflict free. In fact, I’ve never had a conflict hunting big game in my life. So it is possible.

I’ve had a couple in the duck marsh that were unavoidable, but never in the mountains big game hunting.
Ask ridge about the type of hunters he encountered several years ago and in prior years. Ask him about the mentality and entitlement some of those people feel about certain areas. Then add a big deer into the mix and see what happens. I’m not making this stuff up. He’s witnessed plenty of it in an area I hunt and a few other places he hunts. I go out of my way to avoid confrontations. But you let people get away with **** and walk over you by doing so long enough, something is gonna get said that’ll light the short fuse. I’m sure there’s lots of places that everyone gets along with each other. But there’s just as many places that people think are theirs that they will do what they can to push you out or run you off.

wait until you get a phone call from a dude pissed you were hunting ‘his’ spot on public land and how dare you shoot an elk off there.

people are DBs and it’s only getting worse. The new wave of the flatbrim army that’s coming up is gonna cause waves like we’ve never had before with entitlement and attitudes about who owns what when it comes to public land and wildlife
 

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Last time I had someone threaten me while hunting was back in the 70's. Apparently the two point I shot was more important to him than me. I hope he enjoyed it.

Too many people view hunting as a competition. They have been around for a long time. Anybody remember Big Buck Contests back in the day? Yep just that periods Instagram. There is absolutely no way someone can convince me that todays hunting scene is more competitive and successful than back when there were 230,000 deer hunters.

If killing deer is the problem then shut it down. Simple. But we should already know that killing bucks is not the problem. It absolutely fries me that a problem on the southern units has this much influence. Even if the dude who ran the bill is from northern Utah.

My prediction is no decrease in success ratio's, no less "big bucks" killed, no less conflict, and no more herd growth. But there are those who can pat themselves on the back and say we will still get it done "my way".
 

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Last time I had someone threaten me while hunting was back in the 70's. Apparently the two point I shot was more important to him than me. I hope he enjoyed it.

Too many people view hunting as a competition. They have been around for a long time. Anybody remember Big Buck Contests back in the day? Yep just that periods Instagram. There is absolutely no way someone can convince me that todays hunting scene is more competitive and successful than back when there were 230,000 deer hunters.

If killing deer is the problem then shut it down. Simple. But we should already know that killing bucks is not the problem. It absolutely fries me that a problem on the southern units has this much influence. Even if the dude who ran the bill is from northern Utah.

My prediction is no decrease in success ratio's, no less "big bucks" killed, no less conflict, and no more herd growth. But there are those who can pat themselves on the back and say we will still get it done "my way".
How and why is it a "Southern problem".
I had not heard that. I personally know of stores up North that sell more "bait" than my store ever did.
Not trying to be ignorant or mean, just wondering.
 

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Keep in mind that the other side of the “my way” coin on this issue is people feeling entitled to put cameras and bait on public property. There are two sides to the coin, and neither is immune from thinking things should be “their way.”
 

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Last time I had someone threaten me while hunting was back in the 70's. Apparently the two point I shot was more important to him than me. I hope he enjoyed it.

Too many people view hunting as a competition. They have been around for a long time. Anybody remember Big Buck Contests back in the day? Yep just that periods Instagram. There is absolutely no way someone can convince me that todays hunting scene is more competitive and successful than back when there were 230,000 deer hunters.

If killing deer is the problem then shut it down. Simple. But we should already know that killing bucks is not the problem. It absolutely fries me that a problem on the southern units has this much influence. Even if the dude who ran the bill is from northern Utah.

My prediction is no decrease in success ratio's, no less "big bucks" killed, no less conflict, and no more herd growth. But there are those who can pat themselves on the back and say we will still get it done "my way".
How and why is it a "Southern problem".
I had not heard that. I personally know of stores up North that sell more "bait" than my store ever did.
Not trying to be ignorant or mean, just wondering.
Apple bait piles on southern Utah waterholes is the main catalyst for this whole debacle. Bait and camera's are two separate issues along with the whole waterfowl section. The legislature was smart enough to punt the trail camera issue to the wildlife board. Now it's not their fault.

Salt/mineral blocks have been used for livestock operations for years. It is not hard to see that wildlife are attracted to the same sources. Enter hunters who see this and spread it out to other areas. There is not a livestock operator on public land who is going to complain about somebody else leaving salt/minerals on their leases.

If I was to guess the fact that the more desert areas which concentrate any animals to water sources are are responsible for the angst. How do you target animals in some place like the Uinta's?
 

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Have you ever been on the Beaver or Panguitch units before ? Not to mention Boulders and a couple of others. There is a lot of water and public Forest Service and BLM land. It would be just as hard to target specific animals in those areas.
It's not ALL desert terrain down here. :whistle:
 

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I have. It has been a a hobby of mine to visit areas of Utah that I've not been too familiar with. I don't want to be accused of applying for areas I know nothing about if I decide to. I've spent the last 20 years spending time on a lot of the units in Utah one to two weeks at a time. Some even more.

I'm just going on the hearsay from other sites. But apparently some people are putting out truck loads of apples in order to target trophy deer. It has upset a few influential individuals. So hello squeaky wheel.
 

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No these conflicts came about because people found salt and other attractants that guys were sitting over and they have a verbal altercation because the one party thought bait was illegal to hunt over.
Correct. And, thus the conflict. The party that thought it was illegal caused an issue because they were ignorant to the law. With the new recent law making baiting illegal, there should be less conflict because now those people putting out bait shouldn't be putting out bait - and thus the potential for conflict will lessen.

Obviously, there will still be some that choose to break the law, and there will be some who choose to point it out. But overall, there should be fewer conflicts now that the law is in place.

Oh Boy! Since we have now stopped baiting, and will further regulate trail cams because they were the WRONG way to hunt and caused multiple conflicts or fights, look out you ... pop-up blind hunters... which also cause multiple conflicts and fights 'cause you've been on the ethic experts' lists for quite some time. Your time is coming! T
I'll fully support any new regulation to require those pop-up blind hunters to pack their blinds out with them when they leave. How better to reserve your water hole with multiple cameras and a salt lick, than to throw out your pop-up blind a week or two before the hunt starts? :noidea:
Pack It In --> Pack It Out

I'm just going on the hearsay from other sites. But apparently some people are putting out truck loads of apples in order to target trophy deer. It has upset a few influential individuals. So hello squeaky wheel.
Again, 1 bad apple spoils the bunch. But this certainly isn't an issue specific to only southern Utah.
I wonder how our Wildlife Board member(s) feel about this particular issue?
 

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No, now you’ll have guys stealing cams and vandalizing cams because they are CERTAIN cams were outlawed, thus creating a new conflicts. It’s going to happen. And when called out on their ignorance, their excuse will be “well that’s what I heard!” But the damage will be done and the fights will have already happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #395 ·
No, now you’ll have guys stealing cams and vandalizing cams because they are CERTAIN cams were outlawed, thus creating a new conflicts. It’s going to happen. And when called out on their ignorance, their excuse will be “well that’s what I heard!” But the damage will be done and the fights will have already happened.
The irony is strong with this one. Must just be an attempt at an April fools joke.
 

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The examples you give involve physical presence and participation by the hunter. Bait and trail cams are left to attract or record without presence and participation by human (not worthy of term hunter).
I’m sorry, but lumping everyone as “not worthy of the term hunter” if they were to use bait is a pretty big dig at a large segment on the hunting community. It’s this type of comment that divides instead of unifies, and is precisely what we should be going out of our way to avoid. It’s like telling a worm guy he doesn’t know how to fish because he doesn’t catch them on a fly! I know numerous people who use bait (either here or in other states), and they are **** good hunters and individuals.

How many whitetails are killed over bait? Bears? Elk? Just because a person may choose to use bait, where legal, doesn’t make them categorically less of a hunter. We don’t all have to have Daniel Boone credentials! If so, I imagine 95% of us would be found seriously lacking.

Let’s unite and not divide! OK, off my soapbox.
 

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Just because a person may choose to use bait, where legal, doesn’t make them categorically less of a hunter.
I agree with this. I would not look down on someone for doing legal activities. HOWEVER, baiting big game will no longer be legal in Utah after May 5th. So anyone that does it after that point probably deserves to be judged harshly. Illegally taking wildlife is not becoming of a true sportsman, in my opinion. Those people become poachers.
 

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I agree with this. I would not look down on someone for doing legal activities. HOWEVER, baiting big game will no longer be legal in Utah after May 5th. So anyone that does it after that point probably deserves to be judged harshly. Illegally taking wildlife is not becoming of a true sportsman, in my opinion. Those people become poachers.
If the truth be known, I'd guess that many, if not most, of you have already taken wildlife illegally! With the many forever changing federal, state, county and city ordinances regarding guns, archery, fences, cultivated property, wildlife, trespass, gates, definition of highways, watersheds, etc., at some point you've broken the law while hunting. So, let's be sure to add a few more!
 

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If the truth be known, I'd guess that many, if not most, of you have already taken wildlife illegally! With the many forever changing federal, state, county and city ordinances regarding guns, archery, fences, cultivated property, wildlife, trespass, gates, definition of highways, watersheds, etc., at some point you've broken the law while hunting. So, let's be sure to add a few more!
So let's just get rid of all laws and let anyone kill anything they want any time they want? How does that sound? I mean, we're all poachers anyway, so what is the difference if someone unknowingly breaks a law like the definition of a highway versus going out and shooting a 370 bull in February on the winter range?

Goodness...these principles just aren't that hard! You're making them way more difficult than they need to be. I know you want to put out your apples. Just go ahead and do it if you want to do it that badly and you don't view following the law that important. Choices have consequences, however.
 
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