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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is everyone's take on these new Late season LE muzzy deer hunts? At first I thought it may be a good opportunity but quickly realized they open only 2 days after the general rifle. Unless they move the dates further into November, I don't see any incentive to use my LE deer points.
 

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Having hunted cows the first week of November, you see some nice deer start to show their heads but like has been said, if the end date was the start date, I would put in for it.
 

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I'm really surprised how steep the draw odds were last year...

Most were taking 9 or 10+ points to get into the bonus permits.

This years dates are as good as it will get. Nov 2-10...
New scope law too.

5 new units ...

I'm thinking units like Boulder and Zion may take 12+ points to draw a bonus permit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was thinking Boulder but with only 2 days difference from rifle, I don't normally see anything during that time frame that I couldn't get on the rifle. I had no idea there was that much interest in burning LE points on these hunts. Maybe in the near future DWR will move these hunts back a week or 2.
 

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Just a week can make a big difference on those migration route units but I agree with the idea that it would be much better to be a week later and not have to compete with the muzzleloader elk hunters too.
 

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I've come across some really good bucks while on the muzzleloader elk the last couple years, only one though that would make me think about punching a limited entry tag... most are just good looking general bucks.
I'm with Goof though, I am a little surprised by how many points it took to draw these tags last year so I guess if you are just looking for more opportunities to spread the point pool around then it's doing its job. But to really get the attention of those guys with lots of points and draw them away from the traditional limited entry units then moving the dates back a week or two just might do it.
 

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It was always that same time frame when the muzzle was a november hunt. We hunted muzzle deer in the 80's and and 90's. Used to see the good bucks all the time. Usually had a good storm or 2 and the deer had started coming down. Was a bunch of fun.
If we would have had the muzzle guns then we have now we would have been very successful. The 'old ball and patch Hawken was a bit frustrating. We did okay, but saw some great deer.
I think the late tag would be fun.
 

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if they would move it just a week back further it would be sweet but than again I find dandy bucks every year on the muzzle loader elk hunts and there already getting into pre rut activity had a dandy 4 walk right in front of my truck trailing some does and that was the first week of November. you get some weather at all and it gets pretty interesting pretty fast.
 

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You asked...here's my take. I don't like the tags at all...but this year will be IDEAL for for it. There will be some awesome bucks killed IMO because it's much later than last year and like mentioned a few days can make a BIG difference. There will be some SERIOUS rut activity during that hunt and the big boys will be out. Would be a VERY good and fun tag, I've seen some great bucks during those dates rutting the last couple of years.
 

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Id like to see them up the tags a little on Zion and make some cuts to the rifle hunt. That rifle hunt is getting scary crowded. They keep raising permits and every hunters squeezes on to the public land.
 

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I know of at least 1 person burning 15 points.
The bucks we have been seeing the last 2 years during the 1st part of November makes it a no brainer putting in for the later hunt
 

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In the end, these new hunts do provide more opportunity for the LE hunters with very little impact on the buck ratios. I support them.
 

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I'd agree that 5 or so of these permits will not make much of a difference in BD ratios. It can impact the higher-end bucks on a unit, but that is most likely minimal also. What worries me is that we have opened the door to LE management strategies on General Season units. Instead of issuing General Season permits to manage general season herds, we will see a push to offer more LE permits. Which in turn goes contrary to the General Season management objectives. What is the incentive to manage a unit to its General Season BD ratios if there is a contradicting incentive to manage outside of that objective and offer LE tags? Now we are seeing an increase in these LE ML units. I'll hold off on the actual judgement when I see the permit number recommendations later this month. If we see increased LE tag numbers and not a comparable increase of GS tag numbers then it is a problem (imho).

Fin-- I agree with your sentiment on public lands areas being hit harder. I would think private lands only tags would be a viable strategy to reduce pressure on public lands, while offering opportunity within a unit.
 

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I'd agree that 5 or so of these permits will not make much of a difference in BD ratios. It can impact the higher-end bucks on a unit, but that is most likely minimal also. What worries me is that we have opened the door to LE management strategies on General Season units. Instead of issuing General Season permits to manage general season herds, we will see a push to offer more LE permits. Which in turn goes contrary to the General Season management objectives. What is the incentive to manage a unit to its General Season BD ratios if there is a contradicting incentive to manage outside of that objective and offer LE tags? Now we are seeing an increase in these LE ML units. I'll hold off on the actual judgement when I see the permit number recommendations later this month. If we see increased LE tag numbers and not a comparable increase of GS tag numbers then it is a problem (imho).

Fin-- I agree with your sentiment on public lands areas being hit harder. I would think private lands only tags would be a viable strategy to reduce pressure on public lands, while offering opportunity within a unit.
That's the hope with these migration units. To be able to hunt some of those private land bucks migrating off the private lands onto public.
I'd like to see a higher split on the CWMU hunts, something like 30% going to the public.
 

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Id like to see them up the tags a little on Zion and make some cuts to the rifle hunt. That rifle hunt is getting scary crowded. They keep raising permits and every hunters squeezes on to the public land.
I respectfully disagree. I do not like seeing general hunts converted into limited entry hunts.They have hardly raised permit numbers.

I suspect you are going to the dunes. The crowds are flocking there because the deer have migrated earlier the past few years for some reason. I hardly know a person that goes to Smiths or Laverkin Creek anymore which used to be the go to on the 2nd weekend. Now people head to the sands opening day. I suspect there are plenty of areas you can hunt with less crowd, I hate to see cut tags on the whole unit just because everyone wants the same rock.
 

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What worries me is that we have opened the door to LE management strategies on General Season units. Instead of issuing General Season permits to manage general season herds, we will see a push to offer more LE permits. Which in turn goes contrary to the General Season management objectives. What is the incentive to manage a unit to its General Season BD ratios if there is a contradicting incentive to manage outside of that objective and offer LE tags? Now we are seeing an increase in these LE ML units. I'll hold off on the actual judgement when I see the permit number recommendations later this month. If we see increased LE tag numbers and not a comparable increase of GS tag numbers then it is a problem (imho).
That statement should be bolded, put in 24point red blinky font and sticked to the top of the forum.

-DallanC
 

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Utah screwed up when they went to the hunting regions and created two different type of deer hunts, the general season and the LE hunts. Not to mention two different type of points for each. If they would of went to the 30 or whatever units and one point system I personally think that they would of been better off.

You can look at Colorado as a example. At one time you could hunt just about the whole state on the general season tag. Then they went to a draw for each unit. At first it was one unit one tag, now it has grown to one tag for 3 or 4 units and there is just one point system. If you want to hunt anterless and have 20 deer points and put in for it as your first choice you loose all your deer points, there are no buck and doe tags just deer tags.
 

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Provider, let me reword my post a little. I would like to see them stop increasing the Zion rifle permits every year and instead have more late muzz limited tags. The intent of the limited entry muzz hunts was to add some tags on units over the buck to doe ratios with out adding more to already over crowded general hunts. Zion is ideal due to the amount of private at the mid elevation. Most years many of the units deer are at mid elevation during the rifle season. A late limited entry archery season would also provide opportunity without taking away from the general tags.
 
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