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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Congress.gov website recently published a list of traitors, United States Congressmen that willfully violated their oath to support and defend the Constitution of the USA. The bill, H.R. 4269, is also entitled “The Assault Weapons Ban of 2015”.

Here we go again
 

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I do not favor an assault rifle ban, but there is a rule at utahwildlife.net against political discussions not closely related to wildlife or the outdoors.
Some people do use the AR platforms for shooting coyotes and other vermin. The bill also has to do with semi auto shotguns as well as tube fed .22 rifles. It also has to do with handguns which can be used for hunting purposes as well.
 

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I dunno about you guys, but my tube fed rifle takes a lot longer to reload than popping in s new magazine.

Here is what it says about that

"“(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.""
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I dunno about you guys, but my tube fed rifle takes a lot longer to reload than popping in s new magazine.

Here is what it says about that

""(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.""
So that would be the marlin exemption.

This would also ban shot gun tube extensions that are used in snow goose hunts.
And any rifle that has a barrel shroud or hand guard
 

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Any semi-auto 12GA shotgun loaded up with #4 buckshot would be way way WAY more lethal in a crowded area (ie: theater, shopping mall etc) than any AR15. Its probably the most potentially dangerous weapon owned by the masses. Ya all are ok with those though right?

Its silly to try and ban one type over the other.

Know what I see in European country's that have huge firearm restrictions? Bombings, car bombs, planted bombs.... bombs are ridiculously easy to build. One of these days people here will figure that out and we'll wish for the day when deranged people "only" used ar15's.

 

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In reading the language, I believe most of this will not be approved. But I also think they are following two methodologies here:

1- shoot for the moon and hit the stars. The authors obviously know they can't pass every proposed change. But they know some have a chance at squeezing through.

2- use the Donald Trump negotiation tactic. Make the most absurd proposal that they know will not be accepted, then rescind the outlandish that they didn't care about in the first place, but keep the points they really care about.

I use #2 regularly in my line of work and it works very very well.
 

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I see no reason for civilians to own large capacity magazine. In fact, if I saw a person buying a large capacity magazine I would probably wonder about his intentions. His intentions might not be terrorism or other evil intent, but the fact that he feels so fearful or insecure that he feels a need to possess a rifle capable of sustained, high volume fire would probably raise a red flag for me.
I also believe that the insertion of a high capacity magazine into a semi-auto rifle is in fact what transforms a legitimate hunting/target/casual pinking rifle into an "assault rifle".
Now, if you say he needs such a weapon to defend himself against a tyrannical government I say OK, but I think that is where the "a well regulated militia" comes in. Under this setting, individuals that are members of a "well regulated militia" can justify the ownership of this type of weapon.
 

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I see no reason for civilians to own large capacity magazine. In fact, if I saw a person buying a large capacity magazine I would probably wonder about his intentions. His intentions might not be terrorism or other evil intent, but the fact that he feels so fearful or insecure that he feels a need to possess a rifle capable of sustained, high volume fire would probably raise a red flag for me.
I also believe that the insertion of a high capacity magazine into a semi-auto rifle is in fact what transforms a legitimate hunting/target/casual pinking rifle into an "assault rifle".
Now, if you say he needs such a weapon to defend himself against a tyrannical government I say OK, but I think that is where the "a well regulated militia" comes in. Under this setting, individuals that are members of a "well regulated militia" can justify the ownership of this type of weapon.
I see no reason for you to own a standard 12 gauge shotgun for turkey hunting. I mean, we really don't "need" to hunt in 2016 anymore, right? You really get all suspicious when you see a guy buying a large capacity magazine? Wow, you must be loads of fun at parties. Is it really so hard to imagine a guy would have a really good time going out and blasting through a score of .223 rounds in a short period of time? A guy who owns a semi-auto rifle capable of sustained, high-volume fire is a fearful nut that raises red flags to you? Really? I'm glad you and I aren't neighbors, BP. You'd probably be climbing the walls and gnashing your teeth as you peeked at me through the blinds of your living room window wondering why the hell I am doing the normal, every day things that I do.
 

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BP- I have the right to arm and defend myself in any way I see fit, including large capacity magazines. its absurd to deny others that same freedom. Very simple solution to this, if you don't like high cap mags or firearms capable of high rates of fire, then don't buy one. but don't you dare tell me I cant own one when it is my freedom and right to do so! ;)
 
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For the record, I don't even own an AR-15 or even any handguns. I have a Remington 870, some lever guns, some bolt action hunting rifles, a front stuffer, and a compound assault bow. Please don't report me to the feds, BP.
 

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By all means, let's don't start a dialog amongst actual gun owners. Let's just get all defensive, accusatory and butt hurt. Let's get all scared and paranoid. Let's just flip our lids and start hording ammo, buying and stockpiling magazines. Let's teach fear and mistrust of government and our neighbors. Let's just turn America into the land of the not so free.
 

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By all means, let's don't start a dialog amongst actual gun owners. Let's just get all defensive, accusatory and butt hurt. Let's get all scared and paranoid. Let's just flip our lids and start hording ammo, buying and stockpiling magazines. Let's teach fear and mistrust of government and our neighbors. Let's just turn America into the land of the not so free.
You can stop everything you listed. Quit trying to redefine the constitution.

And as a side note, when you get alcohol related issues including death under control, then you give me a call about guns.
 

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Hey BP, I really like you but I think that you should re think your position on what 'civillians' need.

Without going way into a political realm, my opinion is that our ultimate safety and that of our families is primarily OUR responsibility with the authorities being in place to conduct investigations after the fact. This train of thought causes me to consider the worst case scenarios of our time. I think of New Orleans during the Hurricanes. Suddenly you become isolated from police protection and other services. Criminal gangs are running around rampant. The only thing between them and your family/livelihood is you and your gun. How many bullets do you think you would want BP? -------SS
 

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By all means, let's don't start a dialog amongst actual gun owners. Let's just get all defensive, accusatory and butt hurt. Let's get all scared and paranoid. Let's just flip our lids and start hording ammo, buying and stockpiling magazines. Let's teach fear and mistrust of government and our neighbors. Let's just turn America into the land of the not so free.
"In fact, if I saw a person buying a large capacity magazine I would probably wonder about his intentions. His intentions might not be terrorism or other evil intent, but the fact that he feels so fearful or insecure that he feels a need to possess a rifle capable of sustained, high volume fire would probably raise a red flag for me."

 

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I will freely admit that I'm being a bit of a [email protected]$$ in this thread, but isn't a dialogue what we are engaging in right now, BP? You expressed an opinion that happens not to be shared by many others on this forum and some are challenging you on it. Because they don't agree with you, you don't consider it a worthwhile discussion? I doubt you are going to change anyone's mind here, and I doubt anybody is going to change your mind, but why not exchange opinions and ideas for everyone to mull over anyway? Nothing wrong with a little spirited debate.
 

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Sheriff dept looked into high cap mags and found overall size is irrelevant. This is insightful... but opponents will probably skip over it.


-DallanC
 

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Well, perhaps I was being a bit "trollist" with my post but I really feel that the gun owning community needs to step up and become a relevant part of the discussion. We can't just stand on the old hard line "over my dead body" type thinking and language and stay relevant in the discussion. "They" can and will come and get our guns if solutions are not found. We all know that simplistic gun confiscation laws won't work. But perhaps looking at gun ownership with an open mind is something we need to start doing. I am not necessarily saying that large capacity mags are a contributing factor, although they may be, but factors related to gun ownership might actually contribute to (be a trigger to) non-terrorist public violence and possibly an enabling factor to terrorist violence.
Isn't a solution what we all want?
 

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Sheriff dept looked into high cap mags and found overall size is irrelevant. This is insightful... but opponents will probably skip over it.


-DallanC
Not to get picky but did anyone notice that the shooters only shot 14 rounds out of the 15 round mag, 9 rounds out of the 10 round mags before reloading leaving a live round in the chamber instead of letting the slide lock. They did the same thing with the AR.

But even if they did let the slides lock on all the mags it wouldn't of lengthened the time that much. At least for a trained shooter, or a person that has trained himself to fire the whole mag and then releasing the slide stop.
 

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Having to explain or justify your right to the 2nd Amendment as a legal American makes the same amount as sense as having to explain or justify your right to the 1st Amendment as a legal American.

Think about that.

"Over my dead body" should suffice every time. No rhyme or reason needed.
 
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