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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Reading the Utah drawing procedure it says that if you draw a Limited Entry tag then you will NOT be included in the Once In A Lifetime draw you entered. I get that, to spread the joy around and not have an individual get both in the same year. But, what is NOT clear is if you will be awarded a point for the OIL application you paid for which they withdrew you from? I looked deeper by going into the Utah Code online, and it also avoids giving the answer...

It seems to me that you should get a point for your OIL application even if you are taken out of that draw because you were drawn in LE, as you paid the entry fee for both & they do not refund the app processing fee...

Anyone know for sure how the state handles this issue? -Ov-
 

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Reading the Utah drawing procedure it says that if you draw a Limited Entry tag then you will NOT be included in the Once In A Lifetime draw you entered. I get that, to spread the joy around and not have an individual get both in the same year. But, what is NOT clear is if you will be awarded a point for the OIL application you paid for which they withdrew you from? I looked deeper by going into the Utah Code online, and it also avoids giving the answer...

It seems to me that you should get a point for your OIL application even if you are taken out of that draw because you were drawn in LE, as you paid the entry fee for both & they do not refund the app processing fee...

Anyone know for sure how the state handles this issue? -Ov-
From experience you still get your LE/OIAL point(s) for the other species that you don't draw in the year that you do draw a LE/OIAL tag
 

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Not sure why they don't do the OIAL draw first.. Much rather have that tag!
That weeds a whole ton more people out of the OIL draw when they get to it. Whereas if they do the OIL draw first, relatively speaking, they are not weeding out that many people for the LE draw.

I don't know how many successful LE applicants there are over all the species, but that many people (at least those that also apply for OIL) are now not in the OIL draw.

That's my guess, at least. Makes some sense if that is the reason, at least...which probably means they've never even considered that and it is for something totally different! :grin:
 

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The devil is in the details. I don't think most people understand the order of the draw and how it effects what tag you have a chance to draw.

Although I think most would settle for their LE tag before complaining they didn't draw their OIL.
 

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Back to the OP, you get a bonus or preference point for each successful application.

You then loose points if successfully drawn during the draw portion.


-DallanC
 

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The devil is in the details. I don't think most people understand the order of the draw and how it effects what tag you have a chance to draw.

Although I think most would settle for their LE tag before complaining they didn't draw their OIL.
I get it.. It's a minuscule "fix" though.

Fine and happy getting my LE. Simply saying I would prefer the insane to draw OIAL tag over it, even if it means a handful more people are in the draw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Maybe you're all right, but wording in state code and the proclamation is unclear if that's what happens. It states that if you draw LE tag, then you are withdrawn or not entered in the OIAL drawing... they DON'T state that you receive a point as you would if you simply are not drawn. They make it clear you are NOT even in that draw, leaving the impression that possibly they don't give you a point for that year. I appreciate your posts with opinions and especially previous applicable experience verifying what actually happened. :)
 

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Maybe you're all right, but wording in state code and the proclamation is unclear if that's what happens. It states that if you draw LE tag, then you are withdrawn or not entered in the OIAL drawing... they DON'T state that you receive a point as you would if you simply are not drawn. They make it clear you are NOT even in that draw, leaving the impression that possibly they don't give you a point for that year. I appreciate your posts with opinions and especially previous applicable experience verifying what actually happened. :)
I didn't think twice about it, because I didn't plan on drawing.

When I got my LE elk, my OIAL came as an "unsuccessful" and I got a point.
 

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Maybe you're all right, but wording in state code and the proclamation is unclear if that's what happens. It states that if you draw LE tag, then you are withdrawn or not entered in the OIAL drawing... they DON'T state that you receive a point as you would if you simply are not drawn. They make it clear you are NOT even in that draw, leaving the impression that possibly they don't give you a point for that year. I appreciate your posts with opinions and especially previous applicable experience verifying what actually happened. :)
Again, you get the point for a successful APPLICATION.

The draw takes place in a second step, and has no impact on gaining points, only loosing them when successfully drawing a tag.

-DallanC
 

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Maybe you're all right, but wording in state code and the proclamation is unclear if that's what happens. It states that if you draw LE tag, then you are withdrawn or not entered in the OIAL drawing... they DON'T state that you receive a point as you would if you simply are not drawn. They make it clear you are NOT even in that draw, leaving the impression that possibly they don't give you a point for that year. I appreciate your posts with opinions and especially previous applicable experience verifying what actually happened. :)
No maybe about it. We are right.

To help you understand it, let's say you have maximum points for elk and bison when you applied this winter. You cannot draw both an LE and OIAL tag in the same year. The way the draw is run you will get the elk tag, then your application for bison would be converted to a point only application and your name would never even be in the running to get the bison tag
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That's how I thought it SHOULD BE but not what the wording in state legal code actually says, thus the question I posted. I'm glad to know the state is doing it that way, and not just having those who get a LE draw miss out on a point that year for OIAL app they put in... It is just a minor loop hole in the state code that is not explained accurately, so I'm happy to see people got points for their OIAL apps. The state should add to their legal description something to the effect that if you draw a LE tag, your OIAL app will be converted to a point only application for that year, so it clarifies that you will get a point... rather than saying you will be taken out of the drawing. At least they are giving the points even if the legal code doesn't state they have to... because the way it's worded they could just drop a LE tag recipient out of the OIAL drawing without giving them a point for that year. The wording is flawed...but I'm not upset because you all got your points for OIAL when that scenario happened to you. :) (Having lawyers in my family & friend circle has me ultra aware of stuff like this... and often I find issues where people are being ripped off. Glad this one is being handled right.) Thanks for all your replies.
 
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You do realize that some of the respondents are lawyers right?

I guess it is all in the reading but I never questioned that you don't get a point if you don't draw.
 

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That's how I thought it SHOULD BE but not what the wording in state legal code actually says, thus the question I posted. I'm glad to know the state is doing it that way, and not just having those who get a LE draw miss out on a point that year for OIAL app they put in... It is just a minor loop hole in the state code that is not explained accurately, so I'm happy to see people got points for their OIAL apps. The state should add to their legal description something to the effect that if you draw a LE tag, your OIAL app will be converted to a point only application for that year, so it clarifies that you will get a point... rather than saying you will be taken out of the drawing. At least they are giving the points even if the legal code doesn't state they have to... because the way it's worded they could just drop a LE tag recipient out of the OIAL drawing without giving them a point for that year. The wording is flawed...but I'm not upset because you all got your points for OIAL when that scenario happened to you. :) (Having lawyers in my family & friend circle has me ultra aware of stuff like this... and often I find issues where people are being ripped off. Glad this one is being handled right.) Thanks for all your replies.
If you are only sticking to the statutes you might be getting a bit wrapped around yourself. If you also look at the admin code then it becomes more clear (sort of). When you read R657-62-18(4) together with R657-62-8(2)-(3)(a) there is only one logical result for the conundrum you've identified: An application was submitted, but was unable to be successful in drawing a tag and must therefore be an unsuccessful application. An unsuccessful application will be awarded a bonus point.
 
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