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You know what? Shorten the deer hunt from 9 days to 5 days, like they did to the Stansbury unit years ago. I’ll take a shorter season over not being able to use modern technology. You want to help herds, shorter seasons might just help accomplish that.
Yea what Critter said. When you limit the days the mindset of hunters changes and for the majority they go from passing on small bucks for a bigger buck because they have lots of time to hunt, to "if its brown its down". Harvest rates actually went up on units where they shortened the seasons. People shot anything that had an antler.

Counter intuative I know.

-DallanC
 

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Muzzle loader data FWIW

2010 hunters afield 13189 bucks killed 2990 success 22.6%
2011 10846 2129 19.6%
2012 12916 4079 31.5%
2013 13578 4159 30.6%
2014 13502 4093 30.3%
2015 13873 4734 34.1%
2016 14561 5629 38.6%
2017 14218 4648 32.6%
2018 14134 5199 36.7%
2019 13840 3617 26.1%
 

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Those people didn’t just go away.
I'm "those people". If someone wants to shoot 600 yards with muzzleloader super loads and sniper chart go for it! During the Any Weapons season.

I'm glad to see the board(s) are reviewing technology. Archery and Muzzleloader should be considered primitive weapons and have guidelines to maintain that threshold. For years hunted the extended muzzleloader season in November with 50 cal Hawken open sights. Great experience, not crowded and people who chose to hunt accepted the limits of open sights and single shot. In my 40's the eyes aged so I upgraded to CVA with 1X scope.

Trial Cams, Baits, Muzzie Scopes. Liking discussion and direction the boards are moving.
 

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I'm "those people". If someone wants to shoot 600 yards with muzzleloader super loads and sniper chart go for it! During the Any Weapons season.

I'm glad to see the board(s) are reviewing technology. Archery and Muzzleloader should be considered primitive weapons and have guidelines to maintain that threshold. For years hunted the extended muzzleloader season in November with 50 cal Hawken open sights. Great experience, not crowded and people who chose to hunt accepted the limits of open sights and single shot. In my 40's the eyes aged so I upgraded to CVA with 1X scope.

Trial Cams, Baits, Muzzie Scopes. Liking discussion and direction the boards are moving.
That 209 in-line is cheating and gives you an unfair advantage. More so than any trail cam ever did. If you really cared about the animals well-being, you’ll go back to that open sights hawken.
 

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I'm "those people". If someone wants to shoot 600 yards with muzzleloader super loads and sniper chart go for it! During the Any Weapons season.

I'm glad to see the board(s) are reviewing technology. Archery and Muzzleloader should be considered primitive weapons and have guidelines to maintain that threshold. For years hunted the extended muzzleloader season in November with 50 cal Hawken open sights. Great experience, not crowded and people who chose to hunt accepted the limits of open sights and single shot. In my 40's the eyes aged so I upgraded to CVA with 1X scope.

Trial Cams, Baits, Muzzie Scopes. Liking discussion and direction the boards are moving.
Don't forget release aides, % let off, and slider sights for archery ;)
 

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That's because the coyotes eat all the fawns on the island.
Could very well be true. There are plenty of them out there. But I also see does with fawns. I tend to blame it on habitat. But again that just might be me.

I haven't looked at the collar data for the island to see what it indicates.
 

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Muzzle loader data FWIW

2010 hunters afield 13189 bucks killed 2990 success 22.6%
2011 10846 2129 19.6%
2012 12916 4079 31.5%
2013 13578 4159 30.6%
2014 13502 4093 30.3%
2015 13873 4734 34.1%
2016 14561 5629 38.6%
2017 14218 4648 32.6%
2018 14134 5199 36.7%
2019 13840 3617 26.1%
For those wondering, scope rules changed as of the 2016 season.
 

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Interesting data, here are the annual averages:

Pre-Variable power scopes, there was an average of 12,984 hunters, who took an average 3,697 deer - for a success rate of 28.15%

Post Ruling, there was an average of 14,188 hunters, who took an average 4,773 deer - for a success rate of 33.56%

There are more facets than just this data, but it shows that allowing variable power scopes increased the popularity of the muzzleloader hunt with about 1,200 more muzzleloader hunters annually, 1,076 more deer harvested annually, and an increased success rate of 5.41%.

One could, and will argue that deer numbers, weather conditions, etc. played a role in the increased deer harvest - one that I agree with. But, at a very fundamental level, there is data that supports increased success with variable powered scopes on muzzleloaders . . . who would have thought that?!?! ;)
 

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Actually I don't think it is that black and white. Too many variables. And I didn't do the numbers on the any weapon hunts. As the tags come from the same pool it would seem to indicate there should be a reduction in any weapon tags. But I'm definitely not a numbers guy.
 

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Interesting data, here are the annual averages:

Pre-Variable power scopes, there was an average of 12,984 hunters, who took an average 3,697 deer - for a success rate of 28.15%

Post Ruling, there was an average of 14,188 hunters, who took an average 4,773 deer - for a success rate of 33.56%

There are more facets than just this data, but it shows that allowing variable power scopes increased the popularity of the muzzleloader hunt with about 1,200 more muzzleloader hunters annually, 1,076 more deer harvested annually, and an increased success rate of 5.41%.

One could, and will argue that deer numbers, weather conditions, etc. played a role in the increased deer harvest - one that I agree with. But, at a very fundamental level, there is data that supports increased success with variable powered scopes on muzzleloaders . . . who would have thought that?!?! ;)
Cool.

In order to assume the above is true, (as you stated) you would have to compute similar data for the rifle and archery seasons to determine if it is indeed the scope, or another factors like for instance: a couple of mild winters caused a bump in populations that resulted in a higher harvest independent of the scope type. Another potential issue to swing harvest rates are weather patterns, an ML hunt can be +85F or 28F .. or even both in the same day (2013, incredibly hot in the am, huge storm blew in that afternoon and it was a whiteout blizzard by early evening). Best hunt ever for me, most memorable... my son got his first buck in it.


-DallanC
 

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Interesting data, here are the annual averages:

Pre-Variable power scopes, there was an average of 12,984 hunters, who took an average 3,697 deer - for a success rate of 28.15%

Post Ruling, there was an average of 14,188 hunters, who took an average 4,773 deer - for a success rate of 33.56%

There are more facets than just this data, but it shows that allowing variable power scopes increased the popularity of the muzzleloader hunt with about 1,200 more muzzleloader hunters annually, 1,076 more deer harvested annually, and an increased success rate of 5.41%.

One could, and will argue that deer numbers, weather conditions, etc. played a role in the increased deer harvest - one that I agree with. But, at a very fundamental level, there is data that supports increased success with variable powered scopes on muzzleloaders . . . who would have thought that?!?! ;)
I wonder how many of the 5.4% increase were from bumper crops of fawns and a year later a bunch of little two points running around?

Maybe there is no correlation there...
 

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You all can blame me. I'm the black cat that crossed everyones path. The first year (last year), i decide, "Ok, i'm gonna do this critter lick thing, and I know just where to put it"..... and they ban it. Last year was the first year I decided to seriously run trail cams.. now they ban their use past the end of july. Last year was the first year I decided to finally put a scope on my smokepole , and now this thread appears.

My give a schitt, just took a schitt.
 

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For the life of me I don’t understand stand how one method of hunting is being attacked by guys who do another. The antis love this stuff when we work within the hunting world to ban something. Compound bows shoot way further and more accurate than recurves and long bows. Rifles now with rangefinders and turrets on scopes are capable of shooting far more accurate at long range than just 10 years ago. It’s all going to get attacked as this can of worms gets opened. If we want to increase opportunity and make it fair on the deer we should only hunt with hand made bows and arrows like the native Americans did.
 
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Using a original old muzzle with round ball open site. I am a sportsman, what happened to the hunt, they combined it with high power modern stuff, next I will have to put orange on over my buckskins, I would go to a primitive hunt and the rest go with high power stuff, you ruining it for us old timers.
 
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