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http://www.ksl.com/?sid=35824256&ni...ry-sally-jewell-addresses-utah-monument-fears

From the looks of things Utah sportsmen will be getting a Christmas surprise, coming the end of 2016 as Obama makes ready to announce his parting gifts to the batwings of his supporters with the addition of the new Bears Ears National Monument. Unlike the last National Monument Escalante Grand Stair Case, the Bears Ears or should we put this in hunting terms, the Elk Ridge - San Juan will become a full fledged hands off National Monument with a strict No Hunting policy. Why do I think this? Because we no longer have congressman James Hansen to draft final use standards for this new monument and the Utah delegation has no one sitting in a committee with enough clout to modify the use policy.

However, do not let that one monument scare you; I think we may get as many as three new monuments as the parting president coronate's queen Hillary. I See the National Monument designation going to Buckhorn Wash - Water Pocket fold San Rafael Swell and last but not least River Colorado -Lasal Mountain National Monument. All with no hunting allowed and the keep out mentality of the park service . Ask me how I know? Just a hunch but these areas have all been discussed before for further protection as monument status and I think the Berry wants to have a grand legacy to showcase in his presidential palace in Hawaii.

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First can you hunt the Staircase? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Second, if any monuments are designated in Utah, it will only be one, and the one being called for by Utahans, is not any of the three you mentioned, its the central Wasatch. And part of that effort has been to include hunting in the use plan, by those that have proposed this monument.

Most of the 16 national monuments created by President Clinton are managed not by the National Park Service, but by the Bureau of Land Management as part of the National Landscape Conservation System

"Sportsmen have long recognized that we're responsible for protecting our hunting and fishing traditions. That's why New Mexico hunters and anglers were a driving force behind the creation of both the Rio Grande del Norte and Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monuments. We wanted permanent protection of these two prime areas to ensure that our kids and grandkids (and yours!) could hunt and fish there someday, too."

http://www.sgvtribune.com/opinion/2...ting-fishing-in-new-mexico-guest-commentary/1
 
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"...That's why New Mexico hunters and anglers were a driving force behind the creation of both the Rio Grande del Norte and Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monuments. We wanted permanent protection of these two prime areas to ensure that our kids and grandkids (and yours!) could hunt and fish there someday, too."

http://www.sgvtribune.com/opinion/2...ting-fishing-in-new-mexico-guest-commentary/1
Not really. There are many of us New Mexico hunters and anglers that were not happy this happened...

Speculatively, if the Bears Ears were made into a national monument, it wouldn't be good. I can promise you, the only ones to get the special allowance to use those lands are the ones pushing for it, and it ain't you or me. National Monuments are not the best thing. It creates a situation that stops the practical use of land for what? Pretty much nothing of worth.
 

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Not really. There are many of us New Mexico hunters and anglers that were not happy this happened...

Speculatively, if the Bears Ears were made into a national monument, it wouldn't be good. I can promise you, the only ones to get the special allowance to use those lands are the ones pushing for it, and it ain't you or me. National Monuments are not the best thing. It creates a situation that stops the practical use of land for what? Pretty much nothing of worth.
If hunting is of no practical use, and worth nothing, then I guess you have a point.

Bears Ear: That's what some people have said about every NM since the 1970s, yet it has not panned out. What do you know about this that we seem to be missing?
 

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I love the Grand Staircase and am totally glad it is a national monument....I hunt it every year! I think there is a lot of unfounded fear revolving around the creation of these monuments!
 

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Utahgolf - I agree completely, let's stop all mining and drilling ops to preserve the landscape. Then outdoor recreation won't matter so much because it will be difficult to do and take too much time away from the important activities such as hitching up the team and hauling firewood all the time.

Lonetree - who says you can hunt in a national monument? That language has to be put in for it to be allowed. Only "indigenous" peoples would be allowed to use it for that because of cultural or spiritual significance. Check out the arguement being made by the Jemez Pueblo about the now Valles Caldera National Park. Or check out the hype about drilling moratoriums imposed around the Chaco Canyon National Park. I am sorry, I do love to hunt, but hunting does not carry the worth many thinks it does. Once land is protected in certain ways, it makes it so much easier to allocate it in others.

Face it, until a very efficient and very economic source of energy is discovered, drilling and mining are here to stay - that does NOT mean however you have to rape the terrain to carry on such operations...
 

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Utahgolf - I agree completely, let's stop all mining and drilling ops to preserve the landscape. Then outdoor recreation won't matter so much because it will be difficult to do and take too much time away from the important activities such as hitching up the team and hauling firewood all the time.

Lonetree - who says you can hunt in a national monument? That language has to be put in for it to be allowed. Only "indigenous" peoples would be allowed to use it for that because of cultural or spiritual significance. Check out the arguement being made by the Jemez Pueblo about the now Valles Caldera National Park. Or check out the hype about drilling moratoriums imposed around the Chaco Canyon National Park. I am sorry, I do love to hunt, but hunting does not carry the worth many thinks it does. Once land is protected in certain ways, it makes it so much easier to allocate it in others.

Face it, until a very efficient and very economic source of energy is discovered, drilling and mining are here to stay - that does NOT mean however you have to rape the terrain to carry on such operations...
They still pump oil on the Staircase. Energy development can be included in uses under National Monument designations, just like hunting.

You keep trying to make the case that hunters are going to be excluded from being able to hunt NMs, but all you have provided as evidence is the usual speculation. We have decades of precedent that says other wise.

Yes, energy development can be responsibly done, that has nothing to do with hunters supposedly being excluded from NMs.

I have been part of the process to make sure hunting is included in the language that is involved in creating NMs. Another recent example of NMs and hunting is Brown's Canyon in CO, that effort was also spearheaded by hunters.

As long as hunters continue to think that hunting does not carry worth, which is the ideology of those opposed to hunting, then we will continue to reap the consequences of that. Which will be an actual loss of places to hunt, and wildlife to hunt there.
 

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Utahgolf - I agree completely, let's stop all mining and drilling ops to preserve the landscape. Then outdoor recreation won't matter so much because it will be difficult to do and take too much time away from the important activities such as hitching up the team and hauling firewood all the time.
I'd agree if that oil was staying here in the states. ;-)
 

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High Desert Elk;1280162Check out the arguement being made by the Jemez Pueblo about the now Valles Caldera National Park. Or check out the hype about drilling moratoriums imposed around the Chaco Canyon National Park...[/QUOTE said:
Aren't national parks and national monuments different?
 

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With the strong support of the local Native American tribes, I do think there is a strong possibility that Obama will make this happen. It would seem the Native Americans might not trust the state of Utah in land management of this area. Can't say I blame them.

As for the other aspects,

1.
You keep trying to make the case that hunters are going to be excluded from being able to hunt NMs, but all you have provided as evidence is the usual speculation. We have decades of precedent that says other wise.
I agree. I've seen no evidence than hunting would be discontinued at this NM, and considering the importance of hunting in Native American culture, and that they are big proponents of the designation, it would stand to reason that hunting will very likely be included as a use.

2. Do not confuse National Parks with national Monuments. NM's can and do have hunting on them. National Parks do not. I've heard of no move to make this area a National Park.

3. I agree with W2U that most of this concern is unfounded fear, usually combined with the gullible belief that the "land grab" will solve all of Utahs problems and still allow residents the recreational freedom we currently enjoy.
 
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