Utah Wildlife Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Among the many well known 'assault' arms of the day, are a few rifles that seem to be overlooked- which seem to be pretty valid choices to me as well:

Savage mod 99C (detachable magazine)
Rem. 760 or 7600 pump
Rem 740 or 7400 (both of these have detachable box mags, in capacities up to 20 available aftermarket)
Win. mod 88
Win mod 100
Ruger mini 30 & 14
Ruger mod '96 .44 mag- detachable box mag here, too!
Browning BAR
Browning BLR- I REALLY like this one! short throw lever, carbine version w/ 18" barrel, box mag, very light weight.
There's a few others, I can't think of right now.
Most importantly, though- with the exception of the Rugers, they're all available in .243 Win. In my book, the .243 is the best cartridge for 'holding down the fort' available.

If our US military is experience good results with a 62 gr @ 3100 fps
(disregard the over-stabilized bullet theory), why not a 100 or 105 grainer at the same velocity?

Low recoil (which, after spitting out conceivably a hundred rounds in defense of life and liberty isn't all that far fetched) is much easier on the shoulder- lower probability of developing a flinch due to fatigue.

inherent accuracy- it's a .308 necked down to 6mm. We all know what a properly tuned .308 is capable of!
Easy ammo availability; if you handload, you can trim and form just about any case based on .308 or '06 to load rounds.

Easily becomes a sustenance provider- While I would hesitate to use a .223 to bag a deer, a .243 will put meat on the table in any emergency. In fact, my aunt gets a spike bull elk with her .243 nearly every year. Granted, she keeps it under 200 yds and is an excellent shot.
Briefly, Springfield made M1A's in .243 a while back. What an awesome 'defense' rifle!
What are your opinions of these? I know some of them must be kept clean which potentially could be a battlefield hazard, but the likelihood of slogging through a muddy battlefield is fairly low in these days of parking lots and paved streets. Agreed?
Curious of your opinions.

Oh, lest I forget-
The good ol' lever actions, mod 92 and 94 win carbines and marlin lever guns. These have stood the test of time, though somewhat slow to reload.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,355 Posts
Good list. I like the Remington pumps....760, 7600, 870 shotgun, my 141 carbine in .35 rem. strokes lightning fast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Please tell me it's for sale!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,049 Posts
Another you shouldn't overlook is the Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag, or 45 Colt for that matter. The 357 should serve well also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,174 Posts
Elkhuntingfool said:
Is a rifle really a viable option for self defense? I'd much rather have a shotgun and/or a handgun for self defense. Not saying a rifle wouldn't be good, but a shotgun and/or handgun would be my first choice and then work my way to a rifle.
I agree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,160 Posts
I use a pistol for the house, but if you aren't very good with one, there ain't many people who will stay in a house with you when you are using a shotgun to get them. :lol:

I'm sure a rifle is the best for med to long distance defense.

I guess there's no one good defense weapon for all occasions.

By the way you forgot the Thompson sub machine gun (tommy gun) in .45 on your list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,295 Posts
Mojo1 said:
I use a pistol for the house, but if you aren't very good with one, there ain't many people who will stay in a house with you when you are using a shotgun to get them. :lol:

I'm sure a rifle is the best for med to long distance defense.

I guess there no one good defense weapon for all occasions.

By the way you forgot the Thompson sub machine gun (tommy gun) in .45 on your list.
Or a HK MP5 :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,355 Posts
SingleShot man said:
Please tell me it's for sale!
Do you mean my 141?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
For staying in the yard, d*mn right the shotgun gets the nod.
I guess I mean 'perimeter defense', where a rifle has a little more reach, and more precision placement.
I also forgot the Marlin Camp 9 and .45.
though, I was attempting to avoid the 'combat' sub-guns. The sort of rifle a deer hunter might own, with a dual purpose of holding down the fort when the sh*t hits the fan.

Yes, the 141!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,355 Posts
Yes, the 141![/quote]

I have all 141s, .25, 30, 32, 35 and some model 14s, an 8 and two 81s. Love-em. Some are collectors, some are shooters. Have dies for all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My Grandpa (edit; Hero), carried a mod 8 for 70 years, from 1920 to
'91 or '92. I saw him make some incredible shots with that thing. It was a .32. He retired it after ammo got too hard to find. Carried an '06 for a few years before he quit hunting. My uncle has it now, it's hanging on a wall full of dust and cobwebs. I'm a little p*ssed about that.
Anyway; he's dropped dozens of deer, several elk, a few mountain lions, three or four pronghorns, a Bighorn, and a black bear with that thing.
I figure, with some careful load development and plenty of practice, I'd like to achieve the same distinction with my .30-30. Similar ballistics. And, he didn't ALWAYS get close. Never saw him fire more than twice, except maybe a coup de grace once we got to the animal. There are tales told by my great-uncles and uncles that I'm sure have reached fairly legendary proportions, but I've seen the man shoot. I firmly believe there's quite a bit of truth to these stories.
The only thing I'd ever switch to is a Mod 81 in .35 rem (or a Marlin 336- easier to find)
or a Krag.
Although, I'd like to get another Sav. 99 in .300. that's the rifle I was raised on, but in .308 Win. My mind may change someday- but not until I get a few seasons under my belt with one of these.
Long live Heroes, Horsemen, Patriots, and the rifles they carried!
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,355 Posts
SingleShot man said:
My Grandpa (edit; Hero), carried a mod 8 for 70 years, from 1920 to
'91 or '92. I saw him make some incredible shots with that thing. It was a .32. He retired it after ammo got too hard to find. Carried an '06 for a few years before he quit hunting. My uncle has it now, it's hanging on a wall full of dust and cobwebs. I'm a little p*ssed about that.
Anyway; he's dropped dozens of deer, several elk, a few mountain lions, three or four pronghorns, a Bighorn, and a black bear with that thing.
I figure, with some careful load development and plenty of practice, I'd like to achieve the same distinction with my .30-30. Similar ballistics. And, he didn't ALWAYS get close. Never saw him fire more than twice, except maybe a coup de grace once we got to the animal. There are tales told by my great-uncles and uncles that I'm sure have reached fairly legendary proportions, but I've seen the man shoot. I firmly believe there's quite a bit of truth to these stories.
The only thing I'd ever switch to is a Mod 81 in .35 rem (or a Marlin 336- easier to find)
or a Krag..........................
quote]

Great story, I have an 8 in .32. It cycles great. Legend has it Bonnie an Clyde used them and BARs. Unlike Bonnie and Clyde, I have not killed anything with mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,572 Posts
proutdoors said:
Elkhuntingfool said:
Is a rifle really a viable option for self defense? I'd much rather have a shotgun and/or a handgun for self defense. Not saying a rifle wouldn't be good, but a shotgun and/or handgun would be my first choice and then work my way to a rifle.
I agree.
+1

I would never fire off a .243 in my house let alone 3/4 of the others on this list....so many better alternatives. If you are ever in a "perimeter defense" situation we better be at war on our home turf otherwise your going to jail.... :lol: either that our you live in one crappy neighborhood. whens the last time you heard of a citizen shootout with the bad home invasion guys being a block away.... :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Every day, on the other side of the Atlantic.
Just a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
"perimeter defense"
might include a total breakdown of law enforcement like the Hurricane Katrina looters or the LA riots. Be prepared as the Boy Scouts say. Remember that the shotguns and pistols of the LA police were nearly useless during the North Hollywood bank robbery deal and they went to a gun store get ARs, but any hunting rifle would have worked if the sights/scope were mounted on and sighted in.

A nice mix in the home defense arsenal that includes guns that can be used by others in the home, including women, would be ideal.

Civilian hunting semiauto rifles can work, but can easily have issues when used in heavy-duty situations, so I would tend to avoid the Remington 740/7400, Winchester 100 types if possible unless you have seriously wrung one out for more than just a couple of deer hunt shots. Pumps and levers have an edge here.

With increased military training and police use, many feel very comfortable with using a short rifle carbine in CQB situations. Personally I do better with my short AR, AK, or even my Marlin 1894 than a shotgun in CQB. With a flash hider the muzzle flash is reduced, and with these rifles recoil is low and a quick second shot is easy.
When using a shotgun, you have some recoil management issues, and also need to realize that you can't just use it as a "general area" gun because the shot hardly opens up at all in CQB distances. Go out and actually pattern your shotgun at various close distances and you will see the need for careful aiming. In fact this is a good idea for anyone serious about using their shotty for HD. Try some far ranges as well to see your limitations. Remember that round shot loses energy very quickly and penetration can become a major issue at longer ranges.

In a complete civil breakdown, I would think that the silence of a bow might be a handy thing in certain situations. Our hi-tech hunting bows now are very deadly outfits! (Even without Rambo's exploding tips! :roll: )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well said-
I hold very similar thoughts on the same ideas.
A bow IS an excellent "Urban combat" tool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
fatbass said:
Mojo1 said:
I use a pistol for the house, but if you aren't very good with one, there ain't many people who will stay in a house with you when you are using a shotgun to get them. :lol:

I'm sure a rifle is the best for med to long distance defense.

I guess there's no one good defense weapon for all occasions.

...
On the other hand, ANY firearm can be used to successfully defend you and your castle if the correct tactics are employed. I know .22 rifles are used in home defense a lot just because so many folks own them, and they are deadly. Better a .22 than a frying pan! _(O)_
+1 on the "anything vs. Frying pan" thought. :lol:

I would think that a Ruger 10/22 outh to be on your list. Think of all the small, cheap ammo you could shoot flawlessly and fast through one. A lot of people underestimate the .22's overall effectiveness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The .22 has and always will be an excellent home defense weapon. There's the adage that 'more people, good and bad, have been taken down with a .22 than any other caliber.'
Wether that includes centerfire .22's or not, I don't know. But it's probably accurate.
A .22 is my home defense gun that I use now- a Mossberg plinkster auto with a 40mm Red Dot sight.
With a 16.5" barrel and synthetic stock, it only weighs about 4 1/2 lbs, and that big red dot sure makes target acquisition easy.
At 50 feet or less, a .22 is a solid choice in my book.
if I were ever pushed to make a stand, I'd carry a .357 on my right hip, a Buckmark or Ruger 22/45 in my waistband, and a 10-22 w/ dot sight.
I'd also keep a 20 ga Rossi coach gun (broken down) and a take- down Savage 99 in a pack on my back. When I go out on back country pack trips, this is the setup I carry (or one very similar, anyway). It's an opportunity to familiarize myself with the weapons I would stake my life on and get in some good target practice from field positions when I'm camping. You also get used to the weight- which, in this day of aluminum frames and synthetic stocks, is surprisingly light.
the guns I spoke of in the previous paragraph are usually in a state of flux, but the general idea is to keep this setup or one like it, and maintain familiarity.
Basically, I always keep at least one of each of those types of arms in the gun cabinet until I scratch enough together to acquire my 'Dream Team'.
Something I like about pump shotguns, too- they're technically all 'take downs' if you just remove the barrel. Very handy!
As far as shells, I carry a brick of .22's, 100 rds of .38 or .357,
25 rounds of 0 or 00 buck, and 25 of the larger rifle rounds. I also have a fanny pack with projectiles, primers, powder, and a Lee Loader.
All up, it only weighs a bit over 15 lbs-
With pup tent, 3 days rations, H2O purifier, canteen, hatchet, first aid kit, etc- I've managed to keep the weight at about 30 lbs even.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
I think that a custom AR-10 in a .308, 7mm-08, or .243 would be about the ultimate in a defense rifle. Range, power, accuracy, rate of fire; what else could you ask for? (an M1A socom fit's the bill nicely as well).
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top