Utah Wildlife Forum banner

41 - 60 of 369 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Any bets on what type of MIX this is. The article dose not say the breed. It only says a mixed breed. I will call the Tooele county animal shelter and find out. But I would wager it's not a Lab or a Pointer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Scotland just voted to end enforcement of the UKs pit bull ban.
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/ ... d-ban.html

"It is clear that a dog's breed is only one factor which may affect its behavior. Attempting to define the law purely in relation to breed has failed to protect the public."
Over the past decade, Scotland has seen an over 150% increase in dog attacks.
(pit bulls were banned a little over a decade ago)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,359 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Well I'm all for anything Scotland would do- didn't they let the Lockerbie bomber go ?
So it's back to 'tard" with a dog theory.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,174 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

A 71 year old woman was attacked by a pit bull 'mix' in Tooele last week. The owner (son of said woman) had to pull the dig off the woman. The dog attacked her FACE. She had to be life-flighted to SLC. I have personally been bit over a dozen times by dogs, they seem to think phone repairmen are chew toys, but I only was scared from one attack. It was a pit bull. I have been bit by small dogs, two labs, mutts, a chow, and a pit bull. Only the pit bull warranted a trip to the doctor. I have never heard of a lab attacking a 71 year old woman by biting her in the face and having to be pulled off by someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

you don't hear about it because it doesn't make as exciting of headlines. the fact is Labs have killed people, so have goldens, pointers of all stripes, POODLES, chihuahuas, yorkies, pomeranians, weiner dogs, huskies, beagles, greyhounds, coonhounds, pretty much every breed in existence has killed someone along the way.
i personally saw a border collie labelled a pit bull after it attacked a kid. happened in Amarillo TX in 96 or 97. when they reported it on the news the image of the dog was so quick it was impossible to ID its breed. the news then cut to file footage of pit bulldogs. that is why the CDC did not accept media ID as positive breed ID for statistical purposes, although that may have changed around 03-04.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,689 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Pops2 said:
you don't hear about it because it doesn't make as exciting of headlines. the fact is Labs have killed people.
That has certainly been discussed on a few of these threads of these types, however there are about 100x (something like that) more labs in the US vs. pits, so yes, of course there are more bites, but as a percentage of deaths per capita, the pitbulls are off of the charts.
From Wikipedia
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) published in 2000 a study on dog bite-related fatalities (DBRF) that covered the years 1979-1998. The study found reports of 238 people killed by dogs over the 24-year period, of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly responsible for killing 76, or about 32 percent, of the people killed by dogs in the attacks identified in the study. The breed with the next-highest number of attributed fatalities was the Rottweiler and mixes thereof, with 44 fatalities or about 18 percent of the study-identified fatalities. In aggregate, pit bulls, Rottweilers, and mixes thereof were involved in about 50% of the fatalities identified over the 20-year period covered by the study, and for 67% of the DBRF reported in the final two years studied (1997-1998), concluding

"It is extremely unlikely that they [pit bull-type dogs and Rottweilers] accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.
The article shows 62% of deaths in 2009 were by dogs ID'd as pit bull. Seems that the exact figure of what % this breed makes up of the total dog population is fuzzy; my own guess would be <20%...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

because wikipedia is such a bastion of accurate information. for those that don't know ANYONE can post ANYTHING on wikipedia. at least here you have to become a member first.
when the CDC had legitimate info on their site they showed "pit bulls" responsible for 25% of fatal attacks or 4-6 out 24-30 1979-1998. that is because they required POSITIVE ID. they knew full well a boxerXlab could & would be IDed as a pit bull by media & most ACO. they therefore required the dogs breed be IDed by registration papers, owner statement (which is shaky in itself) or evaluation by a representative of the HSUS. by MEDIA ID in the same time period "pitt bulls" accounted for over half of all fatal attacks. (side note how is it the media that is so biased & dishonest about a whole range of issues like gun laws is now suddenly truthful & unbiased on this subject.)
further in order to generate those numbers the CDC lumped together 3 BREEDS where all others are handled individually.
now around 2003-04 the CDC took down all the actual data for that time period and put up a report by two doctors that showed pit bulls caused a much higher percentage of fatalities. the report was ripped under peer review for being scientifically invalid. among other things they used news reports for source data which led to attacks being counted multiple times because it showed up in multiple news sources and they relied on media ID. media ID is also the source for most anti pit bull websites & organizations.

the breeds the CDC lumped together as "pit bulls" as a group are the 5th most popular large/medium "breed."

plain & simple the Netherlands is about 2X the size of new jersey w/ a similar population density. they have one of the most dog intensive cultures in the world, so the average person is very likely to be able to recognize breeds, knows how to handle dogs. their breed ban HAD NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON NUMBER OR SEVERITY of attacks, which is why they repealed it. compare that to the USA where the average person can't handle a chihuahua properly.

i agree that most owners of "pit bulls" probably shouldn't own a goldfish. but the same is true of most owners of labs & goldens. the differences are that the "pit" will handle the maltreatment better w/o becoming violent BUT if they do break & become violent toward people they will do more damage because they are less likely to quit. the whole issue is way overhyped. the statistical fact is that more kids die in a bucket of water, their bath water or the toilet than ALL dog attacks combined. the important thing they have in common is that they are almost all preventable. deer kill 10X as many people every year than ALL dogs, anybody advocate eradicating deer for "public safety?" ALL dogs kill about 20 people a year (for the last 3 years), while 50-60,000 people die in automobile accidents the important thing they have in common is that they are almost all preventable. while nothing changes the personal tragedy of all of these dog attacks are the least significant cause of deaths in this or any country. breed bans are just another step down the slippery slope of living as subjects to an invasive government just like gun control, "hate" crimes & warrantless wire taps. I oppose it on those moral grounds alone. if you don't oppose it you may as well take out a power of attorney and give your neighbor full control over your property & finances because it's the same thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,154 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Pops you can argue all you want for your beloved pitbulls, but they're still the biggest douche bags of all the dogs. You're not going to change anyone's minds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Enough with Wicapedia and CDC, just since I started this thread in April. There have been 6 pit attacks that made the news. The old and feeble the young and possibly even you are in danger. That data stands by itself. I feel completely justified in my previous statement "Pit Bulls are in fact a WAIST OF SKIN" . if you still doubt this please see the following,

http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/lin ... LnmDg.cspx
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=481&sid=10467910
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/st ... W0kYQ.cspx
http://www.standard.net/topics/safety/2 ... bull-melee
http://www.sltrib.com/
oh and one German Sheppard attack http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50197 ... s.html.csp
one police dog http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/st ... Tk3uA.cspx
if you still doubt me call your own city's animal control officer and talk to them and get a real professional opinion from someone who works with them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

i'd take the same stance if it was dobermans (like it was in the 60s & early 70s), german sheperds (like it was in the 60s), airedales (like it was in the 20s & early 30s) or any other breed. it's a lot of media hype & ignorance on many parts. as sad as it is for the families involved toilets really do kill more kids than pit bulls.
if you don't care for them don't own one, just don't try to tell me what i can own. for me a big part of that is the fact that (although i don't own a pit nor do i want one at the moment) i have & will own dogs for hunting that get mistaken for "pit bulls" do to peoples ignorance. additionally i just find the idea of the gov't or my neighbor telling me what kind of dog i can own repulsive, just as i would if they tried to tell me what kind of gun to own, car i can drive or barbecue i could own. i feel anyone willing to throw their neighbor's liberty under the bus for their own false sense of security is an ignorant POS that is wasting air. their very mentality should be offensive to anyone that truly believes in liberty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

no there have been 3 attacks where the dog(s) were labelled pit bulls. on incident of reckless use of a firearm for friendly but poorly mannered dogs (as evidenced by the fact the dogs JUMPED on the girls but DID NOT BITE). and two attacks by sheperds. for a total of 6 attacks. since there are no pics of the dogs involved in almost all the stories we don't have positive ID of the breed beyond media & "eyewitnesses." as i have already pointed out media ID will label a border collie a pit bull after an attack. further many breeds & mixes will be labeled a pit while having no pit in them. i'll even prove it. how many pit bulls are in this picture?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Chaser said:
Pops2 said:
toilets really do kill more kids than pit bulls.
Toilets are a necessity though, where pit bulls are not.
no pet dog is a necessity. even most working dogs are not ABSOLUTELY necessary. so is it okay if i ban your lab?
necessity has nothing to do w/ liberty and that is my root opposition to all breed bans. there are plenty of tools to deal w/ irresponsible dog owners that let their animal be a pestilence to the neighborhood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,174 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Pops2 said:
if you don't care for them don't own one, just don't try to tell me what i can own. for me a big part of that is the fact that (although i don't own a pit nor do i want one at the moment) i have & will own dogs for hunting that get mistaken for "pit bulls" do to peoples ignorance. additionally i just find the idea of the gov't or my neighbor telling me what kind of dog i can own repulsive, just as i would if they tried to tell me what kind of gun to own, car i can drive or barbecue i could own. i feel anyone willing to throw their neighbor's liberty under the bus for their own false sense of security is an ignorant POS that is wasting air. their very mentality should be offensive to anyone that truly believes in liberty.
I agree with this, with one exception, when someone makes the personal choice to own a breed of dog that has tendencies for violence, as pit bulls DO, then they must bear the consequences if/when said animal attacks ANYONE other than the owner. I am 100% in agreement that it is bad form to have the government step in and tell an individual what kind of dog is 'allowed' in their own. Doing so is an usurpation of power and an infringement of individual liberty.

I dislike pit bulls, and I DO think they are a waste of skin (not 'waist' of skin), and I will NEVER own one or allow one in my home. BUT, and it's a big BUT, I will never advocate the government prohibiting any breed of dog from being 'legal'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,221 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

Treat the animal as an extension of the individual and dole out consequences accordingly. If your dog maims a neighbor kid, assault and battery to the owner. Kills another dog, the same felony consequences as a human killing a dog. No liberties lost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

proutdoors, Pops2,

So would you then say it is ok to own an alligator, a full blooded wolf, coyote or rattle snake? Or are these bans ok? Do fetters give way to a higher freedom. Do my individual rights trump the rights of the populi . I absolutely think that there needs to be more personal accountability. But at what point do we stand up and say enough?

I do believe in liberty, who doesn't. But some activities are best suited for more rural areas. Not in the middle of a community. e.g. shooting bows or guns, speeding etc. etc. this is a question I posed months ago, I (we) will continue to follow these dog attacks. Like I say, I love dogs had one or more since the day I came into this world. I feel like I am a pretty good trainer and judge of a dogs disposition. Like so many of you who frequent this board. In the interactions I have with some folks, I see so many people who are truly petrified of dogs (I find this so disheartening). After watching the local Utah news for less than 6 months this is what I have found. I don't believe for one second that the media is hyping these stories in some sort of conspiracy against Pit Bulls. It's just that when an attack dose happen it's usually a LIFE CHANGING (physical and emotional) experience for the victim. No child or elder person should have to be worried that they may have their face literally chewed off because some guy who thinks he is some sort of tough guy, has the "liberty" to have this waste of dog food in there ity bity yard or apartment. I have spoken to the Salt Lake animal control officer and South Jordan's and there is a consensus among them as well, as to the real danger posed by this dog. Why wouldn't there be, they are bread for violence. The officer I spoke to said they see many immigrants who bread them for fighting. This doesn't happen with setters, or Chawawas, why because they are not inherently aggressive. So that being said, I encourage you to keep watch and see, unfortunately by year's end I expect 2+ Pit Bull attacks on someone who that dog knows is weaker than it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
826 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

How bout this angle all dogs are wolfs or are decendent of wolfs. Man took the wolf and domesticated it and from that all dog breeds were formed at the hand of man. None of these specific breeds were accidents they were all bred for reasons. This is what caused the physical transformation in the pit bull over hundreds or thousands of years. So by this line of reason we have noone to blame for this "monster" than ourselfs.......

Before you go throwing yourself off a bridge because of the guilt you must now feel for having a hand in creating such a deviouse and heartless animal. Think about this, maybe if you dont like the dogs DONT BUY ONE. If you or your family is attacked without provoking the animal then put it down.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,174 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

cornerfinder said:
So would you then say it is ok to own an alligator, a full blooded wolf, coyote or rattle snake? Or are these bans ok? Do fetters give way to a higher freedom. Do my individual rights trump the rights of the populi . I absolutely think that there needs to be more personal accountability. But at what point do we stand up and say enough?
Can't/won't speak for Pops2, but I can for me. :mrgreen:
I do NOT care what someone has in their possession as long as it doesn't lead to direct harm to other individuals. If some dum-dum-dummy wants to keep a rattlesnake in his bed, as long as it doesn't put others in harms way, I say go for it. No individuals rights 'trump' the rights of another individual, period. That includes those who 'fear' pit bulls. Their 'right' to be afraid does NOT trump my right to own a 'dangerous' animal. An individual's GOD GIVEN rights only extend as far as they do NOT trample on another individuals GOD GIVEN rights. It is when the "populi" (whatever that is) attempts to stifle an individual's rights based on emotions/feelings that tyranny gets a foothold on a society.

As for the media coverage, if you honestly think they don't sensationalize such things, you are mistaken. 8)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

i never said it was a conspiracy, only that the media calls it the way that will sell the most papers or generate to most ratings.
yes i believe it is entirely okay for private citizens to own alligators, wolves, bear, tigers, bison and so on. one because it is legal in many states & two there is ALWAYS STRICT liability attached. i think strict liability should be attached to ALL dog owners as well. if your dog bites someone unprovoked & you know he had tendancies in that direction (even if he never actually bit anyone) then it's felony assault. the problem is that nobody uses strict liability until the worst case happens. as i have said before if we treat them like a gun and prohibit dogs 30# & up to felons that will eliminate a huge section of the worst owners. and for the record chihuahuas have attacked & killed infants and at least one fatality has been credited to both english & irish setters. because they (like most toy breeds) are extremely aggressive but their behavior is tolerated because they are deemed too small to pose a real threat.
SIDE NOTES
i feel if you're going to put in the steel plates to stop the bullets, you should be allowed to shoot in your basement & the gov't & your neighbors should go screw themselves.
animals in small private "zoos" and kept for "educational display" make up as much as 70% of the breeding stock for some critically endangered species of animals, tigers being the big one but also for other things like primates.
in a nutshell the wants of the many DO NOT trump the rights of the few (we fought a whole big war over this issue & damaged A LOT of liberty in the process). so yes the right of the individual does trump the desires of the majority. however keep in mind that right end at the property line so to speak. as soon as you fail to restrain your dog, lion or cow and it presents a REAL threat to anyone they are within their rights to eliminate that threat & use the force of gov't to ensure that.
i pointed out real threat because in one of the stories you linked the dogs never actually threatened anyone. the cop just shot them because of how they looked, like they used to do to some people back in the day.
also you never did tell me how many pit bulls are in my pic? i'll bet you a lot of money your ACO friends can't either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Re: pitbulls... Waist of skin

I never understand why people get in thees stupid rants. Now I get it. Cornfinder not tryin to pick a fight with you or anyone in here but I assume you've never had a pit so I'll forgive you. My 2 cents is that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners. I'm sure if you could get over the stereo type and give one an honest shot, not only will you be humbled but very impressed.
I can say that because I passed up rescuing my dog twice because of misinformation and stereo types about the breed. Especially since we were going to start a family soon. Doesn't feel like a family anymore unless she's with us. She's excellent with kids/infants as well.
Pit Bulls are not the problem, so they are strong, loyal, and energetic. That's what I got her. We love our Pit!

Nuff said I'm all better :)
 
41 - 60 of 369 Posts
Top