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This is pure bullshoot! Some of those guys have been caught poaching many times before! How are they still able to do this? And I know for 100% sure they haven't been caught 1/10th of the times they have pulled these schemes and poached. This fine and penalty won't stop them for 2 seconds and that pisses me off!
 

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The only way that you are going to stop a person from poaching is to throw him in the clink and not let him out. So many poacher have been caught time and time again just because we can not just send them to jail and forget them, no matter how much we wished that we could.
 

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As long as the punishment is a "slap on the hand" poachers will continue to poach even after being caught for prior offenses as these men have shown. The punishment has to be severe enough to change the behavior. Loss of hunting privileges and fines don't seem to be working especially for repeat offenders.
 

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Why would "loss of hunting privileges" even matter to such people? They are not hunters - they don't care about seasons or season limits. They are poachers, and while I think loss of privileges still needs to be part of the punishment mix, the actual penalties, whether monetary, community service, or jail time, need to be increased and made to have some teeth.
 

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Why would "loss of hunting privileges" even matter to such people? They are not hunters - they don't care about seasons or season limits. They are poachers, and while I think loss of privileges still needs to be part of the punishment mix, the actual penalties, whether monetary, community service, or jail time, need to be increased and made to have some teeth.
Well said....just look at their smiling faces in that picture. So happy with themselves after leaving a 6x7 bull to waste that most of us; myself included dream about for 60 nights leading up to the elk hunt. That picture made me want to puke. Loss of hunting privileges and fines are a joke. Mandatory 5 years in jail...now we're talking. That would hurt enough to make them think twice before doing that again.
 

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Glad they got caught, but I just don't understand why the DA would offer them a plea deal from felonies down to misdemeanors. I do understand saving tax payers court costs and such, but heck if the case was solid, why even go down that road? Convict them on felonies and they'll never be able to pack a gun again; and if they get caught doing so while poaching, it's that much more to convict on... Sheesh!
 

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I knew a guy in LA caught with too many wood ducks during the season He lost his truck, boat and shotgun. Got a 5 year suspended sentence and hunting privileges revoked for 5 years. It didn't faze him. He was doing it again next season. The only way to get there attention is serious jail time
 

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Loosing his truck and boat has to have an affect
 

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Convict them on felonies and they'll never be able to pack a gun again; and if they get caught doing so while poaching, it's that much more to convict on... Sheesh!
This is a good point. Banning these types from packing will affect their lifestyle and their activities more than fines, loss of legal hunting privileges, or even a short stint in jail.

I agree with the rest of you. Glad they got busted but the sentences were way too light.
 

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He was an MD and it was no big deal to him. Just went and bought new
 

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One thing that people need to realize that enhancing penalties in an attempt to deter the conduct for the vast majority of people simply does not work. This has been shown in study after study.

What 'we the people' of Utah need to do is determine what we think is the appropriate punishment for these types of crimes, and insist on our elected officials making those punishments the law. There are always going to be poachers, just like there will always be people willing to murder, rape, smoke crack, drive drunk or steal your stuff. The punishment is never going to deter the action. But we can punish them accordingly.

Make your voices heard to your legislators. Insist on changes.
 

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One thing that people need to realize that enhancing penalties in an attempt to deter the conduct for the vast majority of people simply does not work. This has been shown in study after study.

What 'we the people' of Utah need to do is determine what we think is the appropriate punishment for these types of crimes, and insist on our elected officials making those punishments the law. There are always going to be poachers, just like there will always be people willing to murder, rape, smoke crack, drive drunk or steal your stuff. The punishment is never going to deter the action. But we can punish them accordingly.

Make your voices heard to your legislators. Insist on changes.
I guess I was never included in any of those studies. I can't tell you you how many times I have chosen against doing something because of the penalty. Drunk driving being one of them. I have also lived in remote third world countries that have removed a hand of a thief. Don't think for a second that it does not deter a lot of theft.

Remove the gonads of a rapist and see how many more rapes they commit.
 

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Remove the gonads of a rapist and see how many more rapes they commit.
This assumes that rape is an act to satisfy sexual urges, which is not the case. There are other reasons creeps do it and ways for them to still achieve those sick goals.

So what you are really saying here is the only reason you don't drink and drive is because you will have a fine of $1405, spend two days in jail or do 48 hours of community service, and install an interlock device on your car? My guess is there are other reasons why you don't drink and drive. At least I hope there are other reasons.

There are definitely people that deterrence will work for, but that number is very low. Do a quick google search. The data is comprehensive and consistent around the world.
 

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These poachers are stealing expensive game animals from us citizens what about charging them with felony theft as well?
 

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In regards to plea deals...I know why they are done. They have to be done. However, the legislature has the ability to make laws that restrict what a prosecutor can offer and what a judge can do for sentencing. Prosecutors and judges don't like these laws all that much, but they exist in other areas.

DUI is a good example of this. There are mandatory minimum penalties for a 1st DUI, 2nd DUI, and 3rd DUI (in 10 years) that gradually increase. If a person pleads guilty to or is found guilty of DUI, the discretion of the judge is very limited for sentencing. Further, just this year the legislature passed a law that if a person has a previous DUI in the last 10 years, they can't get a plea deal to an Impaired Driving (which some view as a reduced charge).

If enough of us actually spoke up and insisted that similar things happened with poaching, instead of just constantly complaining about the system online, we might actually be able to make some changes. Has anyone actually talked to your legislator and other elected officials about how big of a joke the punishments are in this state?
 

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Is this the same derren klein from davis county? Anybody know, I cannot tell from the pictures. If so this guy has quite a reputation...
 

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Laws prohibiting actions are nothing more than 1) restrictions on the ethical (e.g. mr muleskinner's example above), or 2) a means of measuring activities of the unethical to provide a legal means to charge criminally.

Further, the unethical can be broken down into two broad groups A) casual offenders, and B) habitual offenders.

Now, before we get all excited to impose mandatory prison terms, there really ought to be a differentiation between the generally ethical, intending to be law-abiding individuals, who screwed up for one reason or another, and the individual who doesn't give a **** what the law says, they will do what they want do if they think they can get away with it (Lost LA's example).

No matter what category a person falls into, the key is ENFORCEMENT. I don't recall EVER seeing one single DNR vehicle anywhere outside of Salt Lake or Davis County urban/residential areas in the last 10+ years I've been in UT. Never once while fishing, hunting, or any other activity - at all. If you have individuals out there, willing to break the law not matter what it says, or the penalty is, if they think they can get away with it, enforcement is the only option. That is severely lacking IMO.

One last thought - before we start throwing people in jail for the long-term (as opposed to an ankle monitor, and a prohibition from leaving populated areas, or other means of preventing further poaching - such as, heaven forbid, enforcing the laws!), perhaps you ought to consider the potential impact on innocent individuals. Children can quickly become victims of their parent's stupidity. If there is a way to control the out of control without preventing them from providing for their families, I'm in favor of that first. Ankle monitors and periodic check-ins for habitual/repeat offenders.
 

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Laws prohibiting actions are nothing more than 1) restrictions on the ethical (e.g. mr muleskinner's example above), or 2) a means of measuring activities of the unethical to provide a legal means to charge criminally.

Further, the unethical can be broken down into two broad groups A) casual offenders, and B) habitual offenders.

Now, before we get all excited to impose mandatory prison terms, there really ought to be a differentiation between the generally ethical, intending to be law-abiding individuals, who screwed up for one reason or another, and the individual who doesn't give a **** what the law says, they will do what they want do if they think they can get away with it (Lost LA's example).

No matter what category a person falls into, the key is ENFORCEMENT. I don't recall EVER seeing one single DNR vehicle anywhere outside of Salt Lake or Davis County urban/residential areas in the last 10+ years I've been in UT. Never once while fishing, hunting, or any other activity - at all. If you have individuals out there, willing to break the law not matter what it says, or the penalty is, if they think they can get away with it, enforcement is the only option. That is severely lacking IMO.

One last thought - before we start throwing people in jail for the long-term (as opposed to an ankle monitor, and a prohibition from leaving populated areas, or other means of preventing further poaching - such as, heaven forbid, enforcing the laws!), perhaps you ought to consider the potential impact on innocent individuals. Children can quickly become victims of their parent's stupidity. If there is a way to control the out of control without preventing them from providing for their families, I'm in favor of that first. Ankle monitors and periodic check-ins for habitual/repeat offenders.
I'm not in favor of putting people in prison for poaching, or even in jail for long periods of time. (except for may be the worst of the worst)

But ankle monitoring and periodic check-ins for habitual/repeat offenders? Absolutely not!
 
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