Utah Wildlife Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've got a friend who has a female black lab, who got knocked up by a neighbors lab. This was not planned. Both dogs are registered and have nice lines. He just noticed the other day she was bigger and "pregnant" looking. He called the vet and he told him she would be too far along to "abort" the dogs. Yesterday he called and said he could get milk out of her ****. A couple questions. If he can milk her, how much longer until she calves? Second what are you're feelings on Euthinizing a litter of pups? Third he needs this dog to hunt. Given the two situations, how long before he could hunt her if he allowed her to keep the pups? Can you hunt a dog while she is nursing? Second if he were to euthinize the pups how long before he should hunt her? I know this is a crappy situation. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
You, I mean your friend should seriously consider having his dog fixed. Regardless of if he kills the pups or not, she won't be in shape to do any real hunting for a few months. his irresponsiblity or his neighbors has basically cost him this hunting season. Killing the pups won't change anything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
IMO at this point the right thing to do is have the litter and do everything possible to find good homes for the pups. For me there is always a fundamental decision when getting a new pup: Am I planning on breeding or showing the dog? If the answer is no, then spay/neuter. If the answer is yes, then that implies ongoing responsibility. Owners of unspayed females need to be aware of heat cycles and take measures to prevent unwanted visitors. Even though it's irresponsible to have the male dog out running around loose also, the primary burden lies with the female's owner because he's the one ending up with the litter. After the fact, it's time to deal with the consequences and buck up.

I heard a saying once: When you get a male pup you only have one dog's penis to worry about. Choosing a female and opting not to spay her means you have to worry about every dog's penis within a 20-mile radius. Few want that much pole on the mind. Wait, this reminds me of another thread....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,021 Posts
Greenhead 2 said:
You, I mean your friend should seriously consider having his dog fixed. Regardless of if he kills the pups or not, she won't be in shape to do any real hunting for a few months. his irresponsiblity or his neighbors has basically cost him this hunting season. Killing the pups won't change anything.
For once I aggree with GH2. This mess was caused by careless dog ownership. Deal with it.

A, If he has the pups aborted, she won't be ready to hunt till late december at best. And she'll be sterile from now on.

B, If he kills the pups when they hit the ground, she won't be ready for a couple weeks.

C, He might as well flood the market with yet another Lab litter and make a couple bucks.

No mater what, he's hosed this season. :evil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
Go to show, "Life is an Inconvenience"

Let the pups come. They don't need to pay for others irresponsibility.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,570 Posts
Yep, you can pretty much milk anything with nipples.
I have nipples Focker, can you milk me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
For some reason I have been thinking about this post. Actually more about the owner of this dog. First I understand that even if your dog is in a kennel she can get pregnant (happened to me a year or so ago). We don't know, and never will the circumstances of how she got pregnant. What I find disturbing is that someone can be so selfish to KILL,(euthinize can't really be used in this case can it) a healthy litter of pups, just so they can hunt. Their own irresponsiblity along with a nieghbors caused this. I could never call a person, a friend who would even consider drowning, suffercating, shooting or just giving the old boot heels to perfectly healthy pups, much less do it for the selfish reason of him being able to hunt. A person who thinks like this should also consider being fixed, along with the dog!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
GH2 I've had some dealings with you before on the old forum under my name Cast 'em & Blast 'em. You know your stuff and I appreciate your concerns and opinions. First off, I know you live here in Sevier County as do I. If you would like to come over and inspect my dogs to see if one is pregnant to set aside the stupid comment that this is really My dog and that I'm playing it off as if it's a friends, then come on over. I assure you this is a friends dog. The dog in question is a pup out of my female that I sold to this friend in Wayne County. Please don't assume I'm the type that makes a mistake and tries to hide behind it by refering to a friend. I know you're not that way and neither am I.

With that put aside, thank you for your comments. The problem here is that myself along with my friend do not believe in "backyard breeding" as it is called. We understand there are WAY too many labs being produced and not for the right reasons. We both have, and enjoy quality hunting labs. His dog is not spayed because he wants to bread her down the road, but under controlled circumstances after she has recieved her health clearances, and can choose a stud that will compliment his dog thus producing Great dogs not just another litter.

It is unfortunate that this happened, but it did. As mentioned in another post it sometimes is unavoidable. I don't want to get into how this happened, but there was neglect on the part of both dog owners.

Now we have a litter coming that would make Good dogs, but not great dogs. So do you keep them and sell them knowing they are only good dogs, and not knowing anything about health clearances on either parent, or do you take another road which would be killing them.

It's a tough choice and I'm not going to make it for my friend, just trying to give him some info. As far as being selfish and wanting to hunt the dog, if he had a planned litter of Great dogs coming he wouldn't even think about hunting the dog, but with a litter of good dogs with no health guarantee i guess call it selfish cause he cares more about the hunting/training of his dog than a litter of just okay pups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
So what your saying tattertot is, in your friends mind (this is what i meant) since they aren't "papered" dogs so he should kill them? I'm trying to find the logic in that. Why doesn't he just give them away or sell them for 50 bucks or something like that. as a kid my parents bought a papered lab that had hip displasia and was gun shy they paid 400 bucks for him he died at age 4 because of a blood clot. They decided to be cheap and bought the next one for 50 bucks. he wasn't papered. he's still around and doesn't have any problems.
So who's to say that a papered dog is a good/great dog.
I have 2 dogs both are mixes between a retriever and a wirehair.(brothers) one is way gunshy and the other with a little more work would be an awesome little hunter. I paid ZERO for both of them.
Not trying to demean anyone just trying to look at it on both sides.
but if he does kill :twisted: them don't post it on here cuz i don't want to hear about it. :evil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,137 Posts
Gimme some of yer TOTS! I didn't know you were 'Tater Cast 'em.

It's sometimes hard to give good friends advice, especially when they may have already indicated to you what direction they are considering. It is my belief that lack of personal accountability is the source of most of society's problems. People's first instinct is to assume a victim mentality, assign blame, and justify the outcome they prefer without accepting basic responsibility.

Yes, "nature finds a way" and dogs can become pregnant in some very improbable ways. Regardless of circumstance, who's fault it is, or any other factor this guy is the owner of a pregnant female lab. He should accept the responsibility of ownership, and be accountable for the events which led to the breeding. This means having the pups, and making an EFFORT to place them in good homes. The vast majority of labs in Utah are not hunting/working dogs, although it sounds like both the sire and dam have good lines and these pups likely can be. My approach, if a friend asked me for my opinion on this topic, would be to say the time for choices has passed! Deal with the consequences!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There is nothing I like more than a SMART individual. Thanks for your great post itchy. I don't have a problem with people voicing their opionions or concerns, that's what we're here for. But to put words in someones mouth when what they really said is posted just above, now that's just plain stupid.

For Example This is what itchy said,

So what your saying tattertot is that since they aren't "papered" dogs he should kill them?
This is what I really said,

Both dogs are registered and have nice lines.
AND

It's a tough choice and I'm not going to make it for my friend
Looks pretty clear to me itchy that the pups would be "papered" and that I am not saying to kill them, it is up to him.

So next time you want to act smart and make your point, try reading first, it will help!

Again, I don't mind your opinion, I welcome it, and will pass it along to my friend, but don't put words in my mouth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Great post threshershark, I'm going to have to say I agree with you.

I am suprised, I thought more folks would respond saying because the parents have no health clearances it would be bad to the "Breed" to sell the pups.

Even if itchy doesn't allways make smart comments I agree with him in that I don't care if a dog is "papered", or what it's lines are. If it can hunt then it can hunt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,087 Posts
Who cares if it CAN'T hunt. It is still a LIVING dog and would make a great pet for someone. I am sorry, but this reaks of greed and selfishness and I am not talking about you tattertot. To me it is a no brainer, your friend raises the pups and gives/sells them to GOOD homes. I have two black lab mixes and neither of them have seen a day in the hunting fields, should I kill them? This is just my opinion and I am sure it won't make a difference in your friends choices. :( I just want you to know I am no way trying to rag on you, I am just giving my opinion. :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the post jahan. I've got to agree with you, I will tell him my opinion and many others is to raise the pups and find good homes.

Thanks Everyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks itchy, I guess I get a little too frustrated when I feel someone is putting words in my mouth. I see that wasn't your intent. I hope my friend makes the right choice. I think he will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
Tattertot said:
I am surprised, I thought more folks would respond saying because the parents have no health clearances it would be bad to the "Breed" to sell the pups.
The pups can (and should) be sold with limited registrations (no breeding rights). Also a spay and neuter agreement. They will make some little kids somewhere happy...and who knows, maybe they will get into hunting and end up here in a few years and tell us about their awesome dog!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,399 Posts
Ironman said:
The pups can (and should) be sold with limited registrations (no breeding rights). Also a spay and neuter agreement. They will make some little kids somewhere happy...and who knows, maybe they will get into hunting and end up here in a few years and tell us about their awesome dog!
Ironman has pretty well expressed my feelings here, so ditto on his comments.

I would have a very hard time killing a healthy litter of pups, and I just don't think it's necessary here. If, as you say the parents are "registered and have nice lines," there just might be some good dogs there. They might not have come about under controlled circumstances, but it's not like your friend will end up with a litter of lab and Jack Russell Terrier mixes or something. These dogs won't be mongrels, they just won't be ideally bred labs.

Like it or not, the pups are coming, and they will make great pets or even great hunting dogs for the right person. Not everybody is looking for a dog to breed or a perfect lineage. A good, spayed or neutered, "purebred" lab at a reduced price would make a fantastic dog for most people, and a perfect family (or even hunting) dog that just might change a kid's life. If the price is right, and the circumstances clearly explained, I don't think it would be all that hard to find good homes for those pups.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top