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Hell no, just release a bunch of starving wolves in the middle of the demonstration.
 

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I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.

I say this to say that Utah should do what Colorado passed today by 7-4 vote "NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group’s recommendations adopted by the Wildlife Commission in May 2005, opposes the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the subspecies’ historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi- national recovery planning with Mexico."

Mexican Wolves were never north of the Grand Canyon, I have no idea what these Jack-Holes are trying to do. They need to focus their efforts in Phoenix, Tuscon, Albuquerque, El Paso, and work with the Mexican government. There is plenty of land in Arizona and New Mexico that should be explored before they should lobby the most anti-wolf state in the union.
 

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I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.

I say this to say that Utah should do what Colorado passed today by 7-4 vote "NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group's recommendations adopted by the Wildlife Commission in May 2005, opposes the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the subspecies' historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi- national recovery planning with Mexico."

Mexican Wolves were never north of the Grand Canyon, I have no idea what these Jack-Holes are trying to do. They need to focus their efforts in Phoenix, Tuscon, Albuquerque, El Paso, and work with the Mexican government. There is plenty of land in Arizona and New Mexico that should be explored before they should lobby the most anti-wolf state in the union.
As a resident of NM I'll say your above statements sound good until it's your own state. Anyone who lives with this can tell you it has had a negative impact. Ask the people who live in "wolf territory" and how they like the cages built to protect their kids at bus stops because wolves began to stalk them as they waited for the school us.

Curses to the wolf introduction program. Trust me, we're more anti-wolf than you think.
 

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I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.

Would you also be for expanding AIDS in it's obvious home range of Southern California?
We need wolves in our forests like we need quaga mussels in our lakes
 

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I am for expanding Mexican wolves within their home range. They are an endangered species that hunters can help preserve. Arizona and New Mexico have started the effort.

Would you also be for expanding AIDS in it's obvious home range of Southern California?
We need wolves in our forests like we need quaga mussels in our lakes
Wolves that can grow to hunt-able population provide another opportunity.

Wolves are good for ecosystems, they help manage populations.

I would say that Cow Elk hunting does more to impact elk populations than wolves. (Look up Wasatch Cow Harvest)

Made up Example:

Figure in a unit 2,000 wet cows killed during the fall/winter hunting seasons would result in a 2500 fewer elk in the unit the next year (25% survival rate). If a pack of 10 wolves killed an elk a day it would only kill 365 animals and your net gain of the 2500 animals would be 135 more elk in the unit.

Right now a lot of states use Cow tags as there form of reducing numbers of elk. Utah you can kill up to 3. Wouldn't it make more sense to limit those numbers to 1 and add wolves - providing the wolves are another hunting opportunity.

The hunter opportunity with wolves is the hard part, but if it was allowed December, January, February, and March would be a great time to get out the snow mobiles and be out in the woods.

Wolves were meant to be apart of the ecosystem and are to managed like any other wildlife species. Why not have them?

Aids and Quagga mussels? haha

Red Herring or Straw Man - take your pick.

I am for reintroducing wolves, because I want to hunt wolves and science suggests they are good to the ecosystem. I do not like the idea of inflating ungulate populations, just so hunters can shoot a bunch of elk. I am for the balance of an ecosystem that hunters can be apart of and partake in. Conservation of species is what hunters do, so why would we limit it to elk, deer, sheep, goat, and pronghorn?

The Mexican Gray Wolf was never a resident of areas north of the grand canyon, so it shouldn't be in Utah. The Grey Wolf is another story.

As far as having to build fences around cities or schools in New Mexico. That is funny to me, because since 1900 there have been only 9 fatal wolf attacks (2 captive, 2 rabies, and 5 others) and of the 32 non fatal wolf attacks since 1900 only one has happened south of the Grand Canyon and that was in 1919. New Mexico has never had a documented wolf attack.

Like I said it is funny they would go to those great lengths given the fact the wolf attacks are extremely rare.

It seems like people are just scaring themselves on both accounts. They will not eat all of the elk and they have not been documented as truly extreme predators of humans.
 

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What make you so entitled to hunt anything.

You want a landscape that is "natural" like Mother Nature intended. Then you're not going to be part of it. Mother Nature didn't account for umpteen million human hunters. It's a no sum game. A critter killed by a predator is a critter not available for harvest by a hunter.

Pro wolf is anti hunting plain and simple.
 

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What is known about their historical range?

From what I understand, they reached the southern part of Utah but didn't venture much past that point.

The reason I ask is because I am curious what impact that could have on Utah as a whole?

The Yellowstone "re"-introduction (notice the way I spelled that) ended up being a different breed of wolf than what historically roamed that area and now we have quite a predicament with that situation.

I am curious if allowing the Mexican wolf to expand to its original territories is or is not a bad idea?

As man, we know better than nature does so it would be interesting to know what man's thoughts are on the topic.
 

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As far as having to build fences around cities or schools in New Mexico. That is funny to me, because since 1900 there have been only 9 fatal wolf attacks (2 captive, 2 rabies, and 5 others) and of the 32 non fatal wolf attacks since 1900 only one has happened south of the Grand Canyon and that was in 1919. New Mexico has never had a documented wolf attack.

Like I said it is funny they would go to those great lengths given the fact the wolf attacks are extremely rare.

It seems like people are just scaring themselves on both accounts. They will not eat all of the elk and they have not been documented as truly extreme predators of humans.
What's funny is you didn't read my post - never said fences were being built around cities or schools, just the bus stops. I don't believe you're aware at just how rural southwest NM really is. That is true ranching country, not like some of the "hobby" properties we're all familiar with.

Wolves are not a welcome sight to the communities that live in that part of the world. Not making it up - it's the reality of it all. If one kid has to be attacked and maimed, or worse, I wouldn't want it to be mine and neither do they. So, whose kid gets to get in a tangle with an alpha male? Yours? I hope not either.

Just because NM has not had a documented wolf attack does not mean it has not or could not have happened, those are the same dismissive arguments made by the 'wolves belong' groups. NM wasn't even part of the Union until 1912, and sparsely populated at that. Back then, ranchers and homesteaders took care of the problem as they saw it.

The inherent problem is the wolves won't necessarily stay where they need to stay. They wander and when they have no fear of man, well, you're gonna have problems.

The reintroduction of the Lobo ain't all roses. As I said, it's only cool for those who are not directly affected by it.
 

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What about Mexican coyotes? They are always hopping the border and cause more of a financial drain to America than a wolf ever will :mrgreen:
 

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What make you so entitled to hunt anything.

You want a landscape that is "natural" like Mother Nature intended. Then you're not going to be part of it. Mother Nature didn't account for umpteen million human hunters. It's a no sum game. A critter killed by a predator is a critter not available for harvest by a hunter.

Pro wolf is anti hunting plain and simple.
IB long time. Glad to see you are still alive and kickin'.

Pro wolf is not an anti hunting plan. It is a hunting plan for wolves.
 

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What's funny is you didn't read my post - never said fences were being built around cities or schools, just the bus stops. I don't believe you're aware at just how rural southwest NM really is. That is true ranching country, not like some of the "hobby" properties we're all familiar with.

Wolves are not a welcome sight to the communities that live in that part of the world. Not making it up - it's the reality of it all. If one kid has to be attacked and maimed, or worse, I wouldn't want it to be mine and neither do they. So, whose kid gets to get in a tangle with an alpha male? Yours? I hope not either.

Just because NM has not had a documented wolf attack does not mean it has not or could not have happened, those are the same dismissive arguments made by the 'wolves belong' groups. NM wasn't even part of the Union until 1912, and sparsely populated at that. Back then, ranchers and homesteaders took care of the problem as they saw it.

The inherent problem is the wolves won't necessarily stay where they need to stay. They wander and when they have no fear of man, well, you're gonna have problems.

The reintroduction of the Lobo ain't all roses. As I said, it's only cool for those who are not directly affected by it.
I took cages for fences, but I guess they are not the same thing.

I do agree wolves do not stay where you want them too, which is why we need to hunt them.

Being of the attitude get rid of all the wolves is a good way to keep them protected under the ESA.

Being of the attitude we will manage them the same way that we manage other wildlife species and thus not eliminate them entirely, will allow a hunting opportunity.

As far as the if we save one we save them all argument. More people probably get killed by hitting deer or elk with their cars every year than would ever be attacked by a wolf. To me it is not worth it to not have them, provided there is a hunting opportunity. Having them without a hunting opportunity is another story.

The attitude that hunters have will do a lot in convincing the public to allow wolf hunting. If hunting is about controlling the wolf populations like any other species people will be more accepting to the idea of allowing hunters to manage wolves rather than paid government guns.
 

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Maybe you can make anti-wolf arguments on various grounds, but human safety? Car and Deer Collisions Cause 200 Deaths and Cost $4 Billion a Year. By the logic of "whose child has to die for the wolf" we'd be farming wolves to keep the deer down.

It's a hard world out there and there's lots of people. Something eventually gets us all.
 

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What is known about their historical range?

From what I understand, they reached the southern part of Utah but didn't venture much past that point.

The reason I ask is because I am curious what impact that could have on Utah as a whole?

The Yellowstone "re"-introduction (notice the way I spelled that) ended up being a different breed of wolf than what historically roamed that area and now we have quite a predicament with that situation.

I am curious if allowing the Mexican wolf to expand to its original territories is or is not a bad idea?

As man, we know better than nature does so it would be interesting to know what man's thoughts are on the topic.
Not sure about their historical range but the species does seem to be weak and probably will die off naturally without man made intervention, like 99.999% of the extinct species that once inhabited our rock.
 

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I took cages for fences, but I guess they are not the same thing.

I do agree wolves do not stay where you want them too, which is why we need to hunt them.

Being of the attitude get rid of all the wolves is a good way to keep them protected under the ESA.

Being of the attitude we will manage them the same way that we manage other wildlife species and thus not eliminate them entirely, will allow a hunting opportunity.

As far as the if we save one we save them all argument. More people probably get killed by hitting deer or elk with their cars every year than would ever be attacked by a wolf. To me it is not worth it to not have them, provided there is a hunting opportunity. Having them without a hunting opportunity is another story.

The attitude that hunters have will do a lot in convincing the public to allow wolf hunting. If hunting is about controlling the wolf populations like any other species people will be more accepting to the idea of allowing hunters to manage wolves rather than paid government guns.
NM Game and Fish lists a fine of illegally shooting a Mexican Wolf of $50,000 and, of course, some jail time. They are and will always be protected under the ESA. It's just so "romantic" to have them around.

Still waiting on a hunting season, but haven't seen it yet. When they do have one, there won't be any shortages for volunteers or candidates.

+1 Bax on the Mexican coyotes...
 
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