[taxidermist]

The Wife and I headed up the mountain yesterday (8/14) morning to build a bait site for Yogi and get ready for the opening next Saturday.
Spent 6 hours setting up a bait crib and packing 80 pounds of bait into it. The area is thick, rocky and steep to get to the site.

On the way up in the SxS there were close to 20 cheap tents set up in strategic locations. I knew these tents were put there by folks "saving there spot".

On the way back to the truck, I couldn't believe how many trailers had pulled into the area. Tents removed and trailers setting up. If a piece of real-estate that fit a trailer was available, it was taken. It reminded me of a Parade Route, with people placing claim to their chunk of ground waiting for the Grand Marshal to start the festivities.

One camp had so many RV's in it, that one of the trailers was literally a foot off the road. With the slide extended, it would be in the road.

It's crazy! what the he!! is happening?

 

[Critter]

Welcome to the new normal.

With all their free time the last couple of years folks have rediscovered the outdoors.

However one thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of trailers for sale now after people purchased them with their covid checks and now realize that they can't afford them.

 

[taxidermist]

Welcome to the new normal.

With all their free time the last couple of years folks have rediscovered the outdoors.

However one thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of trailers for sale now after people purchased them with their covid checks and now realize that they can't afford them.

Some of these "camps" had newer trailers that I know are north of 80K, newer diesel trucks lifted, and UTV's that are close to 40K. If I had that kind of money, I'd be investing in my retirement so I could enjoy the golden years.

 

[Critter]

The new idea is to live for the moment and not to worry about the future.

I know a few people who purchase new trailers and trucks every couple of years just to stay up with the Jones next door. One friend has filed bankruptcy so many times that I can't believe that he can even get a loan, but he does. He also has the newest and fanciest trucks and trailers.

You have to figure that some of us here were taught the value of good credit and that the only person that was going to take care of us once we retired is ourselves. But that idea is out the window anymore.

 

[taxidermist]

The new idea is to live for the moment and not to worry about the future.

I know a few people who purchase new trailers and trucks every couple of years just to stay up with the Jones next door. One friend has filed bankruptcy so many times that I can't believe that he can even get a loan, but he does. He also has the newest and fanciest trucks and trailers.

You have to figure that some of us here were taught the value of good credit and that the only person that was going to take care of us once we retired is ourselves. But that idea is out the window anymore.

I have a "friend" that received an inheritance that his parents worked to the bone to acquire. They past and he got the money. He has acquired a lot of toys and hasn't any regard to what it takes to get that kind of financial security. If he keeps going, I bet he blows it within a couple years.

This is a little off topic, but it does have relevance to over crowded dispersed camping.

 

[BPturkeys]

The definition of "camping" and "getting out into the outdoors" has certainly changes over the last few years. These massive parking lots of campers with the huge 5th wheelers, huge pickup truck, SxS's, seems to be the norm now days.
But even with all that visual clutter, the one thing that spoils the modern outdoor experience for me is the noise. The modern camping area is so loud. Why can't people be still? Why must everything they do be so noisy? Quiet is the very essence of "outdoors".
You can still find those quiet areas, those peaceful places, but not when your idea of camping is what we see advertised on TV ads for those "necessary toys" of modern camping.

 

[one4fishing]

My favorite new norm is all the toilet paper and turds all over the ground.

 

[taxidermist]

My favorite new norm is all the toilet paper and turds all over the ground.

I agree! What a joke that is now.

For what it's worth, I did see two "tree cops" yesterday. One was out of his truck looking at the stream. The other was motoring up the road.

 

[sawsman]

I almost dread heading out now days for the reasons you mention. Utah is way bad and I find myself drifting to remote Idaho and other places more and more now days. I go to try and escape the noise, trash and masses.. Hard to get away from it...

 

[Lone_Hunter]

I constantly bitch about this all the time. The bottom line I think is overpopulation. Lots of reasons why, but I think that's what it boils down to. Most of the bad habits you'll see , I attribute to people who recently relocated from California, Washington, and Oregon. The thing is, I have a point of caparison. I moved here in 2011, and could compare and contrast ad nausum. The bottom line on that however, is that I've been seeing stuff here in Utah now, that I haven't seen in YEARS, and when I do see it, I recognize it for what it is. It used to be that people, and many probably still do, live in a bubble. That bubble that is uniquely Utahn. Utah is losing its innocence. Both in the city, and in the mountains.

I should point out another problem is the mass migration in terms of culture. Utah IS losing it's culture. When people move in small numbers, they'll intergrate and adapt to the local customs and traditions of the place they moved to. When they move in mass numbers, they'll get cliquish, not integrate, and keep doing as they always have. Birds of a feather flock together. Case in point, I've seen it a couple of times when i'm "talking shop" at sunday family dinners, and they'll be some couple I haven't seen before. Turns out they were from California, and the instant they find out I used to live there - suddenly they want to be my best bud. Otherwise, they just sit in a corner. It sickens me.

Now as the mountains go, call it a bunch of BS if you want, but I'm not a fan of public lands in southern Utah. The reason being, is to me at least, you can sense it, feel it, they are TAME. Not wild, and overrun with people. I never got that sense in Northern Utah. Now, i feel as if they are losing their wild aspect to them. They are becoming tame.

I hate it, but the only thing I can think of to do, is adjust to the times.
Ditched the trailer for canvas hot tent.
Family camps occur now when it's colder. Less people.
Be willing to backpack more. Even if its just 1/2 to 1 mile. Just get away from that blasted road. Yeah I know its hard to do, we've so many of them.

I dunno, it's a pooch screw. Just yesterday I went to glass a calving area I know of. I'm not even gonna bother. The road going in was compacted so much, it may as well be paved when it used to be dusty not even a couple years ago. Dudes everywhere glassing or shooting bows. That's when it hit me. The reason there's so many archers is because those tags are unlimited. In 2019 Rifle/muzzy tags sold out in 10 to 19 days. Now they sell out in 4-8 hours. So much demand now. I'll bet eventually DWR starts to limit the number of archery tags once enough cows are harvested. Not because these flood of people into archery are any good, no, because they'll harvest enough cows by shear force of numbers.

Oh and to hell with Silicon slopes. There's a reason why Idaho has about 1 million less people than Utah. They don't have a "silicon" sector as far as I know. After the Olympics, that I think is the tech sector here is the number 1 cultprit for letting the secret of Utah out. Think about it, top 3 car tags: Washington, Oregon, and California. WHere's the Tech sector been residing at traditionally? Yeah......Now watch the state turn purple and go the way of colorado. Give it time, odds are it will happen.

My 2 angry cents.

 

[taxidermist]

I'll bet eventually DWR starts to limit the number of archery tags once enough cows are harvested. Not because these flood of people into archery are any good, no, because they'll harvest enough cows by shear force of numbers.

I disagree with your comment. The one reason why, is it's a money maker for the DWR/State. The odds of harvesting an elk with archery tackle is very low. The person going for the first time could possibly see how difficult it really is and give it up. I've seen more Archery tackle being sold on KSL than in years past. I think these are the guys giving the sport up.

 

[middlefork]

When they start limiting archery tags it will because of people complaining of over crowding not because of killing too many elk.

Are there a lot of people out there? Sure and the vast majority are not there to compete for your secret honey hole. I'm not exactly clear on how you expect to turn back the clock. If the amount of people "out there' bugs you just stay home and enjoy your living space.

 

[Lone_Hunter]

I'll bet eventually DWR starts to limit the number of archery tags once enough cows are harvested. Not because these flood of people into archery are any good, no, because they'll harvest enough cows by shear force of numbers.

I disagree with your comment. The one reason why, is it's a money maker for the DWR/State.

You have a good point there, but I still think they'll reassess later.

The odds of harvesting an elk with archery tackle is very low. The person going for the first time could possibly see how difficult it really is and give it up. I've seen more Archery tackle being sold on KSL than in years past. I think these are the guys giving the sport up.

I know harvesting with archery is very low, and I hope you are right about people giving up, but it doesn't match what I'm seeing in the mountains in terms of shear numbers of people. Although, those same people might adding to the onus of moving general season elk to a draw later on. I think they'll do it eventually. Either way, Utah as it was, as it should be, is on it's way out. I don't like it, but I can't deny what I'm seeing. I was out on skyline the other day, first time in at least a year, maybe two - Ummm yeah that was a mistake.

 

[taxidermist]

What your seeing is spot on in the shear mass of folks in the outdoors in the past 5 years. I have never seen the area I was in with so many camps. The days of the quiet camping are past I think, unless you do the off the beaten path, hike in camp.
This is when I have regrets of selling a cabin lot a few years ago I owned for more than 25 years.

 

[2full]

The mass crowding on the public has a lot of people looking to buy private. The 20 acre lots up around my place have gone crazy. Bare ground lots are going double from just 2 years ago.
I didn't buy the 20 acres next to me 3 or 4 years ago when it went up for sale........I really regret that mistake !!
It is way more than double now.
Plus, I wouldn't have the neighbor I have now.

I have a guy that has told me to name my price
several times for ours. I am not ready to sell yet.
Maybe in another 5ish years. I told him that.
I threw out a crazy high price to try to discourage him because he was trying to change my mind.

He didn't even blink, and said no problem, would pay that anytime.

 

[taxidermist]

The mass crowding on the public has a lot of people looking to buy private. The 20 acre lots up around my place have gone crazy. Bare ground lots are going double from just 2 years ago.
I didn't buy the 20 acres next to me 3 or 4 years ago when it went up for sale........I really regret that mistake !!
It is way more than double now.
Plus, I wouldn't have the neighbor I have now.

I have a guy that has told me to name my price
several times for ours. I am not ready to sell yet.
Maybe in another 5ish years. I told him that.
I threw out a crazy high price to try to discourage him because he was trying to change my mind.

He didn't even blink, and said no problem, would pay that anytime.

I picked up 2, 2 acre lots back in 1990 for $3,600 each. Split one with my sister 10 years ago at no cost to them. Sold the other lot I was going to build on for a little over 20K.

Same thing, purchaser threw a cash offer out and I took it.

 

[backcountry]

Utah's outdoor and tourism boom has been going on as a trend for 20+ years. You just had to watch the magazines to understand the trajectory. But the "Big 5" and "Life Elevated" campaign threw it into overdrive. It was a predictable outcome that once more people visited the parks that we'd see increased pressure on adjacent public lands. This happens in most Western states with such gorgeous landmarks.

I get a laugh out blaming the Pacific coast states. But at least it's more inclusive now and we're hearing about OR & WA as well. Cracks me up as every state I've ever visited and recreated in has the same problem: a minority of visitors with no ethics. And when we see increased visitation we will see the consequences of those people more often.

I saw it in Colorado in the 90s to aughts. I saw it as soon as I visited Utah 20 years ago. I saw it the Appalachians. I even saw it in Alaska 20 years ago but there were less people so it was more subtle. Where there are people there are slobs who don't care about anyone but themselves.

And anyone pushing a static, unified concept of a state's culture is unsubtly ignoring large swaths of populations within it's borders. I've defended Utah against such attacks from outsiders and I'll do the same against insiders. Every portion of Utah I've lived and worked in has displayed a range that some people love to flatten into an overly simplistic monoculture. What that means: Utah wasn't and isn't some Utopia that's being degraded by "others". It's changing in multiple ways and many of those are coming from pressures from the inside including multi-generation families who never were part of the the particular majority people like to focus on (or mock and scapegoat like we often see from nonresidents).

That also means that Utah has had residents more than willing to degrade the land and experiences of others. It didn't take some outside force or trend for that to happen. 20 years ago I ran into surface turds everywhere, residents pilfering pottery from public land, idiots shooting at night without backstops, people not dousing their campfires, locals getting drunk and playing music until 3 am in dispersed camps, and RVs sitting empty on sites for weeks until the hunt.

The scale of it is really the only new thing. It's in our face more and we can't ignore it. Some of it's really ugly.

And we are likely a decade or more away from seeing peak visitation. We still have a lot of land most people still haven't seen and they will share what they find.

 

[middlefork]

We bought our property more than 30 years ago with much prompting from my wife who tired of me complaining of over crowed camping in our preferred area. Particularly leading up to "hunting" season. I'll admit it has been nice to not worry about a camp spot unless we hunt a different area.

That being said it has a county/FS road running through it and so I'm aware of traffic and people. For the most part the rhythm hasn't changed but for sure the volume has. Weekends and holidays are busier than week days. And there is no doubt when it gets close to "hunting" season as the traffic picks up and the camps start getting staged. We used to laugh about the critters reading the proclamation to know when the hunt starts, But there is no reason they need to read. The uptick in sheer volume ensures they know it's that time again.

It was interesting that this year the WMA's in the area pretty much closed down dispersed camping by signing most areas as day use only. I can't wait to see how that changes the dynamics for the forest area.

The growth of the ATV/UTV craze and growing popularity of the trail systems in the state definitely leads to more traffic. Being on a main trail for a system leads to a lot of conflict. The trick is to not let it bother you. I tolerate my neighbors in the city because I'm not moving until I die. I have more vehicle traffic in 20 minutes in my neighborhood than a year in the mountains.

The same people who trash the mountains are some of the same people who think nothing of trashing the city.

 

[Lone_Hunter]

Regarding land, what you guys are seeing could be signs of a larger trend, not just in Utah but everywhere. I think it's the overall view of the current situation nationally and in the news - and the perspective it produces. Anyway, it's been my view that there has been a mass migration out of the west coast in general, and as a result, population density everwhere else is going up.

Lots of people want their own piece, for varying reason. Some just want bugout locations. Some just want a cabin (more like mansion) in the hills and get out of the city. Others want to make some attempt at homesteading, which is A LOT more work then most people realize. Others probably all of thee above. Whatever the reason, I think people will pay whatever price they can and not blink about it, because that land is forever. The cash it cost? I'll wager the perception is it's either ultimately worthless, or just transitory. Think hard assets, then factor in inflation, recession, fears of depression, rumblings of the electronic dollar, just all the economic uncertainty in general.

If I had 20 acres, i'd hang on to it and NEVER sell. Id pass it down, because my fear is there will be no other way to acquire property in the future. Id rather leave things better for my kid if I can after I'm gone. Add up everything you might be hearing in the news from, blackrock buying up homes and turning them into single family rentals, to bill gates buying up farmland, etc etc.

 

[taxidermist]

Years ago when the deer tags were state wide, we had our little slice of heaven for a camping area. It was the same spot year after year. We knew who would be in the next camp down the road as well. It was just common knowledge that you didn't set camp where you hadn't done before. We and the "Neighbors" had some great Dutch Oven cook-offs, horseshoe tournaments, and just great comradery. I miss those times and the Neighbors.

Now it seems like a horse race from the gate start to positioning for the win. I understand folks want to get out and enjoy what's out there, but it's just crazy now. I've seen ropes stretched between trees, cheap tents, vehicles, and logs positioned of some "saving" their spot. It's like they are laying claim to a piece of public land. I don't know, I guess I should just be happy we still have the opportunity for dispersed camping.