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Ewts renegged from next season's basketball game citing danger to players; makes one wonder what is really going on. Could it be that they have to play in Provo next year? Makes you wonder...
 
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I'm sorry, when looking at the BYU basketball team, the last thing that comes to my mind is intimidation or fear of injury. I'm an old fat guy and I'm confident I could hold my own against 90% of those wimpy guys.

I couldn't care less what the real reason is for not playing BYU, maybe they are on to greener pastures? But don't disgrace yourself by claiming to be scared of the BYU squad. ---SS
 

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This is a real dumb move by Utah. Coach Krisco is pretty much a coward. It's like he is saying BYU is misbehaving so they need a time out. Really? What a wimp. Lace 'em up and play ball. Bunch of whiny crybabies.

Some of those kids that went to Utah went there because they want to play against BYU. Now, coach is saying come on boys, we don't like to play with them, lets take our ball and go home.

This rivalry has been going on for a long time. Who is coach Krisco (who doesn't understand the rivalry) one to end it? It's a cowards move. He just put a big L on his forehead. If I had a son choosing a team and a coach to play for, I would highly recommend they choose a coach, a school, a team that had a little backbone.

Who would have thought a single punch could knock out a whole team and coaching staff? Wait until the Utes have to play some teams with real strength--they going to cower into the corner and decide not to take the floor.

I watch a lot of college basketball and if coach Krisco thinks BYU is a rough team--well, he's a WIMP! I'd like to go back and watch some of his college and pro games. I don't remember him being a crybaby wimp, but maybe I better go back and take a look.

And for Chris Hill, the AD--he should have told coach that it is a foolish move and will make the U look like a bunch of pansies and that he was hired to turn boys into men and to beat BYU every year. Can we find no men on the campus?
 

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With none of the in-state teams in the same conference, I'd LOVE to see a pre-season tournament with Utah, BYU, Utah State, and Weber. Hold it over Thanksgiving weekend to kick off the hoops season. Play it in the the Delta/Energy Solutions/Vivint Center in SLC - and go round robin on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Build it up as the Battle for the Behive, promote the thing. Free admission if you show your high school ID card. Make it fun. It is only in the last 2-3 years that Utah has been decent again. BYU have been the most stable programs, and Weber produced the best professional player to come out of Utah for decades. And Utah State has been consistently good and seems to be able to beat teams they probably shouldn't. I think a round robin thing would be a great success, and promote the really good college hoops in the state.
 

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Well, now they say he is cancelling it because he sees it as a definite loss next year and it will hurt them strategically in the polls. The roughness of the game was just used as an excuse so everyone will say "yep, someone's going to get hurt and we don't want anyone to get hurt."

In one move Krisco has made Utah look very silly on a national level. Any tough players want to come play for the team that doesn't want tough, rough games. Come to WUSS university. I've been listening to the national media and they think Utah is a joke.

I really thought Krisco was doing okay, but he looks a lot like Jim Broylen. What next Krisco, grab the mike during hard play and stop the game and tell all the fans and players we are going home because it's just too rough.

Where are all the Ute's comments on this? I guess it's hard justify this one.

Hmmm. A Ute player kicks Haws in the groin last year and the Cougars still came to play at the Huntsman Center this year.

Glad to be a Cougar fan. Good or bad, they are not a bunch of quitters.

Shame on Chris and Larry--grow up!!. Maybe Utah should put more effort in their Chess team.

Maybe the Ute nation will ask to have the Ute name and logo taken from the university. Maybe we could have the Utah logo changed to a coward. How to best make that logo???

Someone suggested for the logo a group of cows running with the words: :"The Runnin' Cow Herds!"
 

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Coach Krystkowiak is actually a very good coach who I respect(ed) and admire(d).....until yesterday.

I love the emphasis he places on defense and fundamentals. I think it's a much more stable and consistent strategy than hoping all your shooters are hitting their 3's on a nightly basis.

That being said, his justification is really just pretext in my opinion. Weak move on his part. I think there is reason for BYU to rein in all the extracurricular nonsense on the court and the football field. However, I don't think that is in not-the-real Coach K's purview, nor do I believe that is the sole reason he wants this cancelled.

Seems like a combination of an overreaction to a situation and tactically not having to play down in Provo next year without 3 of the best players he has.
 

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So he calls out the character of BYU players and shows his character by being dishonest. Probably why so many people are sick of sports. What we need is for all the fans to just stop paying ticket prices, booster money, and making all these dishonest coaches and poor character players have to play for the same kind of money the rest of us make.
 

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The biggest thing we learn about this is it sucks to be a BYU fan right now. I'm a Utah fan and I'd prefer they play the game.

But you can't discount the fact that BYU is at Utah' mercy in this type of thing. Utah is playing for March and they don't get a lot of benefit from playing a WCC team every year. I feel bad for BYU fans because there isn't a whole lot they can do.

Does Oklahoma play Tulsa every year? Does Stanford play San Jose St every year? I'm not saying Utah is at those levels yet, but they want to get there. In their mind this is a step that is going to be needed at some point.
 

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So what you are saying Billy, is that the roles have reversed. BYU used to be the holier than thou, we should be playing better competition teams because we are better and now Utah and fans have that attitude. Interesting.
 

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HighNDry,
The roles have definitely reversed. I think most Utah fans I talk to want to keep playing the game, but we get where Dr. Hill and Larry K are coming from.

Unfortunately we're not really talking about "College Athletics" or "Student Athletes" anymore, it's very much a semi-pro league. There are a lot of dollars floating around. I think in Utah's eyes, Utah and SLC can't afford to support 2 major college programs. I think the long game they're playing here is by trying to create some distance between the 2 schools, over time, they'll get a larger chunk of the fan base. A lot of hard-core Y fans who will never change, but what are the demographics like ten years down the road?

Just my opinion.
 

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I like it when someone says that the other team is playing dirty. As most of you parents know it is usually the one that retaliates that gets caught and not the one that caused the problem in the first place. I'm not saying that the Y has a bunch of angles playing for them in either football or basketball but I think that all the coaches need to take a good look around them and see just what is happening and not just blame it on the other team.

As for the rivalry it needs to go on and the coaches should be able to control their players, if not they need to get out of the coaching business. Or does Utah think that since they joined the Pac 12 that they are above the Y?
 

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So what you are saying Billy, is that the roles have reversed. BYU used to be the holier than thou, we should be playing better competition teams because we are better and now Utah and fans have that attitude. Interesting.
No role reversal at all. BYU is still holier than thou and Utah is still better. :)
 

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Where are all the Ute's comments on this? I guess it's hard justify this one.
Give us a chance, we Utefans are out working, you know, pumping gas, running a business, etc.

Here is my take FWIW.

First, I do have to admit that the timing of this decision is such that it does look like coach K is dodging a game in the Marriott center to an improved coug team and I can understand the reaction by cougarfans. Just don't pull a muscle in your faces exhibiting your righteous indignation. I do believe the U could have handled this better.

BUT

The problem with thuggish behavior at the Y is a real problem. One that the BYU administration and a great many cougarfans seem to ignore, or worse, rationalize and justify. If I hit someone in the same manner that Emery did in that game, in front of a law enforcement officer, I'd spend some time in jail. Yet cougarfans on message boards and elsewhere are quick to come up with vague previous transgressions by opponents and nonsense to justify or even lionize the action. It was the same with the "nut punch" incidents and the "Miami beach brawl" with the football team. Worse, Rose and BYU's administration decided to give Mr. Emery a one game slap on the wrist against an overmatched opponent, a sentence that almost all outside observers found shockingly light. If Krystowiak was looking for an excuse to get out of the BYU game, Emery, Rose, and BYU handed it to him on a silver platter.


Why is this a problem, even to cougarfans? Well first, it was the stimulus/excuse to cost you the rivalry game. It may cost you other games too. When I found out about the Emery incident, I was out of town. I followed the game live on a phone app but didn't know what happened. I woke the next morning to 3 ESPN commentators discussing whether Emery should be kicked off the team and then they went on (and on) about BYU's sports rap sheet. How many other schools will refuse to play the Zoobs that you won't hear about?

Next, like it or not, BYU players not only represent their university and cougarfans, but they also represent LDS people everywhere, even Utefans like myself. When these guys get out of line to this magnitude, it makes all Mormons look bad. It is worsened by cougarfan sycophants justifying the action. And in spite of local cougarfans sticking their head in the sand and claiming that it is they that are being picked on, the national criticism of BYU's rap sheet nationally is genuine and intense. I know it was where I was during the Emery punch. I have little doubt that these problems increase the difficulty of the core missions of the LDS church. If the issues aren't cleaned up, church leaders may just decide to scrap major BYU athletics altogether.

Whew, there is your reply HND.:)

Finally, now the U hopefully will play Utah State again. Make it happen !
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Coach Krystkowiak is actually a very good coach who I respect(ed) and admire(d).....until yesterday.

I love the emphasis he places on defense and fundamentals. I think it's a much more stable and consistent strategy than hoping all your shooters are hitting their 3's on a nightly basis.
I agree 100%, I hate BYU's offense of nothing more than hoping you can drain a lot of 3's every night with no real offensive strategy.
 

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It will be interesting on which division II team that Utah will schedule in the Y's place.
 

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Give us a chance, we Utefans are out working, you know, pumping gas, running a business, etc.

Here is my take FWIW.

First, I do have to admit that the timing of this decision is such that it does look like coach K is dodging a game in the Marriott center to an improved coug team and I can understand the reaction by cougarfans. Just don't pull a muscle in your faces exhibiting your righteous indignation. I do believe the U could have handled this better.

BUT

The problem with thuggish behavior at the Y is a real problem. One that the BYU administration and a great many cougarfans seem to ignore, or worse, rationalize and justify. If I hit someone in the same manner that Emery did in that game, in front of a law enforcement officer, I'd spend some time in jail. Yet cougarfans on message boards and elsewhere are quick to come up with vague previous transgressions by opponents and nonsense to justify or even lionize the action. It was the same with the "nut punch" incidents and the "Miami beach brawl" with the football team. Worse, Rose and BYU's administration decided to give Mr. Emery a one game slap on the wrist against an overmatched opponent, a sentence that almost all outside observers found shockingly light. If Krystowiak was looking for an excuse to get out of the BYU game, Emery, Rose, and BYU handed it to him on a silver platter.


Why is this a problem, even to cougarfans? Well first, it was the stimulus/excuse to cost you the rivalry game. It may cost you other games too. When I found out about the Emery incident, I was out of town. I followed the game live on a phone app but didn't know what happened. I woke the next morning to 3 ESPN commentators discussing whether Emery should be kicked off the team and then they went on (and on) about BYU's sports rap sheet. How many other schools will refuse to play the Zoobs that you won't hear about?

Next, like it or not, BYU players not only represent their university and cougarfans, but they also represent LDS people everywhere, even Utefans like myself. When these guys get out of line to this magnitude, it makes all Mormons look bad. It is worsened by cougarfan sycophants justifying the action. And in spite of local cougarfans sticking their head in the sand and claiming that it is they that are being picked on, the national criticism of BYU's rap sheet nationally is genuine and intense. I know it was where I was during the Emery punch. I have little doubt that these problems increase the difficulty of the core missions of the LDS church. If the issues aren't cleaned up, church leaders may just decide to scrap major BYU athletics altogether.

Whew, there is your reply HND.:)

Finally, now the U hopefully will play Utah State again. Make it happen !
I agree with a lot of what you've posted but have a few nits.
Whether people admit it or not BYU is set up for finger pointing because of what they "try" to stand for with their connection to the LDS faith. There are people who just hate BYU because it's an LDS institution. They are under a microscope in a way. Any little mess-up and it is magnified. Imagine if all the premarital sex from players of other teams across the nation was broadcast all over the media. It would be non-stop broadcasting. But for most young college people it is a daily thing and because they don't espouse it as a "sin" it only becomes national news when a BYU player is involved.

I'm not condoning any of the punches and cheap shots and brawls that BYU has been in as I don't condone it with any team, but I've played enough ball to realize things happen to ALL teams at one point or another. If you watch the replay of the Emory punch, you see Krystkowiak having to be held back by people. What would have happened had he not been held back? Is his actions warranted and okay? Should he have to apologize for losing his cool? Do we hold the students behavior above that of the coaches? Watch a lot of the sideline antics of coach Krystkowiak compared to other coaches around the league. He displays some pretty mean and loud behaviors. Granted no punching yet because he is often times held back, but non the less his behavior is often times alarming. I think a little part of Krystkowiak doesn't want the game in Provo because he wonders if HE can keep his cool.

People are always wanting more punishment for these instances and maybe it should be made more public. For whatever reason BYU has decided to handle the punishments internally. Media wise we see a one game suspension for Emery and suspensions for football players involved in the brawl. But, I know that BYU has handed out other "punishments" that the media does not know about. This could be similar to what the courts of the land do such as required community service or service around the campus. We just don't know what these kids have to do because it is not advertised. They may even require the perpetrators to visit with social workers and psychologists to see if there is an anger problem. We the public are many times not satisfied unless it is a public hanging.

People make judgments all the time. Utah's football player makes comments about BYU's dirty play before the Vegas Bowl, but the only player ejected from the game for unsportsmanlike like conduct came from Utah's team. Little has been made mention of it. But I'm almost certain had it been a BYU player ejected the Utah players and media would have said. "See. We told you they were dirty."

Anyway, I ramble.
 

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Funny! Not one of us knows the exact reasons for Utah cancelling the game next year. But we like to fill in the blanks.

Here's my opinion on the matter...

I am a high school boys basketball coach. There is a certain team we've played the last few years that we have absolutely decided no more with these guys. The coaches, players, parents, etc are a bunch of whiny dirty players / parents, etc. Every year, we take flagrant elbows, punches, and this year the crowning event was one of the kids going in for a lay-up, being undercut and falling nearly 10-feet breaking his arm. Ironically, nothing is ever called against these guys. But if you've witnessed high school officiating, then you would believe this. So I don't really have a problem with Utah cancelling the game next year. Two of Utah's last three games with BYU, have had a BYU player ejected after a flagrant 2 foul. Both were egregious fouls. Both fouls occurred nearing the end of a blowout loss to Utah. Ironically, both players were from the same Utah County HS.

There's also rumors that Utah doesn't want to play BYU because it's a "sure loss" next year. BYU returns a good team next year, but Krystko's style has hurt BYU from day 1. Yeah he's 3-2 against BYU since coming to Utah, but the first two games (year 1) Utah finished 6-25. I think BYU beat them by 15-20. The next year, Utah was sub-500 and had a late lead in the MC. Since then, Utah has controlled the series. Utah isn't scared to play the Lone Peak kids. If that were the case, they'd be begging to join the WCC and play in all the HS gyms that BYU already does. Utah plays teams every year with top 20 recruiting classes. This year for example.... Duke, UCLA, Arizona, Oregon St (Yeah, look it up), Oregon, etc. So their is no fear at playing the cougs.

Coach K has done some tremendous things for Utah. He's nothing like Boylen, or even Majerus. He's a pretty clean guy that is protective of his players. In reference to as he put it "what got his undies in a wad" with the Emery hit wasn't the actual punch thrown, but rather Emery standing over the top of BT and telling him something very foul. As a coach, this would tick me off as well. You spend so much time with these kids, they become your own kids. And many of you would agree, that you would come unglued if this were to happen to your own kids.

Lastly, no matter what anyone thinks, likes, knows or wants... Utah doesn't need BYU. BYU needs Utah. If you look at the way things are trending in major college basketball. (Yes, I am leaving BYU out of this!) The major college basketball programs are scheduling 2-3 tough road / neutral opponents against other "P5" programs and then playing the majority of their out of conference games at home. This is nothing new. Take Utah for example this year... Utah has played Texas Tech, Miami, Temple, Duke, and Wichita State this year all on Neutral floors. The rest of their games have been at home. Utah went 3-2 in that spread of games. Again, they don't have to play at the MC other than to do BYU a favor.

I have mixed feelings on the matter personally. The coach side of me actually agrees with Krystkoviak because I think that Emery's punch on BT and taunting was about as foul as you can get in college sports or any sports for that matter. In the pro's, he'd of been suspended 5-10 games and fined 100K for the incident. But like BYUs football program, it was handled with a one-game suspension slap on the wrist against a patsy. The fan side of me is disappointed but thats about it. This isn't going to make me lose sleep at night as a fan.

Overall, I think that the ultimate decision was made by Chris Hill. I am sure Coach K went to him following the game in all of his emotions. But this was Hills call. Coach K doesn't sign the $80,000 check. Coach K is just taking the heat for it.
 

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Forget hurt feelings by a single coach or a hot-headed player being stupid. I'd support a Thanksgiving Weekend tournament in the Delta/EnergySolutions/Vivint - Center - With BYU, Utah, Utah State, and Weber. Battle of the Beehive. Round Robin over 3 days.

BYU produced the most recent College Player of the Year of any Utah Schools. The best NBA talent from Utah in recent years came out of Weber. Utah is stronger now, and Utah State is consistently a solid team. So put the top 4 programs together for the fans. Celebrate ALL the great college basketball in Utah. Make it fun. And Utah can quit big-timing everyone else because they got lucky against Duke (Just think how annoying BYU fans were after they beat Nebraska - utefans are doing the same thing). Things run in cycles. As was noted, it wasn't that long ago that Utah hadn't beat BYU in basketball in like 8 years - enough that games on The Hill had more blue than red in the stands. Utah couldn't give away tickets to their home games. They tried. Even for free, Utah couldn't get fans out. I'm glad it has swung the other way now. Utah has a proud basketball tradition and it is more fun when the fans go to support good teams.

All the more reason I'd LOVE to see a Battle for the Beehive early season thing. I'd even suggest that over time, there would be pretty good balance on who won the thing, and though I'm a BYU guy, I'd bet that USU and Weber would win it more often than either of the bigger programs would care to admit. And that would be absolutely great.

Anyone with any kind of historic context of college basketball in Utah, knows that things go up and down for each school. 1-2 top quality players in a program can make the difference between playing in March, or playing to empty seats. So for ANY team in the state to "big time" ANY other team in the state is just stupid and ignores reality.

I guess reality is relative though. Like in my reality, I think Utah State has the most loyal, crazy, fun, and energetic basketball fans in the state - as evidenced with how they pack the arena for every home game. In my reality, BYU fans are incredibly loyal and put on a fun event for home games, and the home town student crowds are goofy, dorky, just plain silly, but seem to have a lot of fun at the games. Utah basketball fans are the most fickle, and will fill the arena when the team is good, and marginal teams will play to empty seats. Utah probably has a higher ceiling than the other schools with the conference affiliation. And Weber is an interesting piece of the puzzle to me, because they are different than any of the other schools - both in team and fan base. They have shown historically that in some years, they can play right along side the biggest of big time teams for a game or two. When they have an exciting player, they'll pack the arena. To me, Weber is more about just the pure love of the game than any of the other schools.
 

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I hope Utah's coach heads to the vacant position at UNLV. I think he would be better suited coaching down a league where he wouldn't have to worry about all the stress and tough play.
 
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