Sage Grouse
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July 7th I believe
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here is a great program regarding the sage grouse
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sagebrush-sea-full-episode/12341/
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sagebrush-sea-full-episode/12341/
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I am a sucker for the PBS Nature programs anyhow but that one really hit home for me.
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Could we...hunters...help by voluntarily stop shooting these birds just for sport. Lords knows I am not anti hunting, but are we really doing our part to insure the survival of this species.
What other people or groups do, good or bad, should have no bearing on our response to a clear problem.
I personally stopped hunting Sage grouse years ago, I hope I have helped in some small way.
What other people or groups do, good or bad, should have no bearing on our response to a clear problem.
I personally stopped hunting Sage grouse years ago, I hope I have helped in some small way.
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Watched that when it came on- good show- I do agree with BP- I would just as soon watch the mating dance in the spring rather than shoot one-pretty tough bird to say it's an eating delicacy. There is a pretty good deal up near DuBois every spring to go watch.
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Sheldon WMA in Nevada - You have until August 1 - Normally have applications ready in July.
I drew last year, the first time I put in.
It's a 2 day hunt.
You can buy a 2 day upland permit for $29.
I drew last year, the first time I put in.
It's a 2 day hunt.
You can buy a 2 day upland permit for $29.
It's this sort of talk that might have Benson sending you an email. and we paid 2 million dollars for that email.
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The same could be said about antelope. I like sage grouse because I can hunt them, I am have interest in their success because I have that connection to them. Do I give a care about the June sucker--heck no and I bet most of you don't either, because you have no connection to them. If the sage grouse have a sustainable population and limited hunting doesn't affect their numbers then we should hunt them so people will get to know them and care about them.
I help the DWR count them each year because I can hunt them--take that away because you think they taste like crap and well--less folks will be willing to stand up for them--aside from the greenie weenies but they have their own agenda. All I am saying is to be careful in promoting a hunting ban--we are all hunters and if the population can sustain it--then we should all publicly support it regardless of our individual tastes and proclivities.
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I see what you are saying and that is fair enough. However, I actually enjoy pronghorn meat, and find it at least more appealing than most mule deer I've eaten. Growing up, I hunted sage grouse a plenty. It is the only bird I've ever shot a triple on. They were fairly plentiful, stupid, and pretty easy to hit. But after consistently limiting out on the stupid things, I saw no sport in it. And My Dad made me eat what I shot, and no matter how many ways we prepared it, I could barely choke the things down.
As I get older, maybe I'm just seeing things differently. I don't hunt things simply because I can. I'd rather photograph most things any more than kill them. And sage grouse are certainly in that category. If I want to hike around in the sage shooting things, I'd rather shoot jack rabbits or chuckurs than grouse. Not that I'm about a ban or anything. Just not my deal. But I also realize that the push to list greater sage grouse has nothing really to do with the grouse, but instead is a push to put a halt to some of the destruction that poorly done O&G development has done to sage environments.
As I get older, maybe I'm just seeing things differently. I don't hunt things simply because I can. I'd rather photograph most things any more than kill them. And sage grouse are certainly in that category. If I want to hike around in the sage shooting things, I'd rather shoot jack rabbits or chuckurs than grouse. Not that I'm about a ban or anything. Just not my deal. But I also realize that the push to list greater sage grouse has nothing really to do with the grouse, but instead is a push to put a halt to some of the destruction that poorly done O&G development has done to sage environments.
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So since you've progressed/evolved as a hunter to the point where grouse are no longer a worthy challenge for you I shouldn't be able to pursue them, my kids shouldn't be able to or my neighbors kids shouldn't be able to?
Hunting is doing no harm to the bird compared to the other perils its faces. Is a species with a population of half a million really endangered? Guess it depends on who you ask.
States DWRs and F&Gs also get vital stats from harvests such as age and locations of birds.
Hunting is doing no harm to the bird compared to the other perils its faces. Is a species with a population of half a million really endangered? Guess it depends on who you ask.
States DWRs and F&Gs also get vital stats from harvests such as age and locations of birds.
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I applaud those that have quit hunting Utah sage grouse in an effort to conserve them.
However, the tasty and elusive game birds are doing well in Wyoming so says the WY Game & Fish, the BLM, The National Forest Service, the Wyoming Public Service Commission, the Southwest Wyoming Sage Grouse Working Group, the Wyoming Travel and Tourism Board, the Wyoming Legislature, and the Wyoming Governor's office...uh....and all the other entities that kowtow to the oil, gas, and mining industries so I will continue to hunt them.
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However, the tasty and elusive game birds are doing well in Wyoming so says the WY Game & Fish, the BLM, The National Forest Service, the Wyoming Public Service Commission, the Southwest Wyoming Sage Grouse Working Group, the Wyoming Travel and Tourism Board, the Wyoming Legislature, and the Wyoming Governor's office...uh....and all the other entities that kowtow to the oil, gas, and mining industries so I will continue to hunt them.
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Are we all in denial that natural predators kill 100 birds for every one shot by a hunter who pays for a tag employ's a biologist and conservation officers to conserve them.
Geez, go ahead stick your head in the sand. Stop those evil humans from destroying the lek and let the predators do what they do and you will still loose the 2nd dumbest bird in the world next to the turkey.
A grouse not shot by a hunter is just predator feed.
Geez, go ahead stick your head in the sand. Stop those evil humans from destroying the lek and let the predators do what they do and you will still loose the 2nd dumbest bird in the world next to the turkey.
A grouse not shot by a hunter is just predator feed.
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Yeah, that's an interesting point of view.
I'm another one of those guys that counts sage grouse; have been counting them here in Rich County Utah/Uinta County Wyoming for over 30 years, same places, same time of year, year after year. The oil and gas knuckleheads are gone yet the grouse just aren't doing that well, even on private land that sees little, if any, bird hunting.
Sure there's a huntable population, but it doesn't compare to the numbers we had when the natural gas industry had everything around here tore up and, from what I seen, there were many more people hunting sage grouse.
What's up? The poor greater sage-grouse has lots of enemies other than hunters and predators are at the top of the list. The sage-grouse here are getting hammered by predatory birds. Eagles and hawks as always, but there's a new threat; ravens. Yes, ravens; smart and opportunistic, ravens are not only raiding nests, they are hunting sage-grouse chicks like a harrier, gliding low and slow over the tops of the sagebrush. Ravens have negatively impacted sage-grouse numbers to a point that the DLL talked the DWR into a special raven "harvest" to help the grouse.
Then there's coyotes, fox, badgers, West Nile, too little rain, too much rain, Round-up, selenium, and Dick Cheney.
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True about the Ravens. That video this thread is about said Ravens and others pillage 40% of nests. If we can save some sage grouse by killing Ravens let's put a bounty on them and have at it! If the greenies actually cared about the grouse wouldn't this be on the top of their list?
To those that think we shouldn't hunt sage grouse; put your money where your mouth is and put in for a tag and eat the tag. Apparently it would taste better. I bet u don't.
To those that think we shouldn't hunt sage grouse; put your money where your mouth is and put in for a tag and eat the tag. Apparently it would taste better. I bet u don't.
I'm torn on this topic for a couple of reasons. First, I was completely unaware of Sage Grouse and their threaten habitat prior to becoming a hunter just a couple of years ago. My interest in these amazing birds started with hunting, and although they are amazing even as a non-game species, I'm afraid my interest in them would disappear quickly if I wasn't hunting them. The same is true for the Sharptail.
On the other hand, they are very easy to hunt, which drew me to them originally as I was just gaining the basic hunting skills, but somehow now makes them less appealing. Also, (confession time) their threatened habitat drew me to want to hunt them originally because I felt like I had to hunt them before the opportunity went away forever. Just like the ease of the hunt, the threatened habitat now makes hunting them less appealing because I've done it, and now I feel a need to not overuse the resource.
On the taste issue, I don't think it affects my personal motivations at all. I think they taste fine (and I don't expect all my game birds to taste like KFC).
So, knowing my own human motivations: Is the Sage Grouse (and Sharptail Grouse) better off if I just don't care about them at all? Or are they better off if I care about their welfare, but I also kill and eat two per year? I honestly don't know the answer. I guess it probably depends on what other things I do throughout the year to help them in the case that I care (and hunt).
I really respect Packfish for what he is doing. He has found a way to care about the birds, do what he can to help them, and not hunt them. I'm just afraid that if I stopped hunting them, I would stop caring about them.
On the other hand, they are very easy to hunt, which drew me to them originally as I was just gaining the basic hunting skills, but somehow now makes them less appealing. Also, (confession time) their threatened habitat drew me to want to hunt them originally because I felt like I had to hunt them before the opportunity went away forever. Just like the ease of the hunt, the threatened habitat now makes hunting them less appealing because I've done it, and now I feel a need to not overuse the resource.
On the taste issue, I don't think it affects my personal motivations at all. I think they taste fine (and I don't expect all my game birds to taste like KFC).
So, knowing my own human motivations: Is the Sage Grouse (and Sharptail Grouse) better off if I just don't care about them at all? Or are they better off if I care about their welfare, but I also kill and eat two per year? I honestly don't know the answer. I guess it probably depends on what other things I do throughout the year to help them in the case that I care (and hunt).
I really respect Packfish for what he is doing. He has found a way to care about the birds, do what he can to help them, and not hunt them. I'm just afraid that if I stopped hunting them, I would stop caring about them.
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I am also torn on some of the issues here. When I started hunting Sage Grouse or for that matter any upland game species in the intermountain west it was 1973- my 2nd yr at USU - Became a Utah resident. for 10 years I was probably the first guy to spout off about how unethical 90% of the hunters were about anything- be it hunting to littering and how they do nada for the resource. then in the 80's it dawned on my tunnel vision that it wasn't 90% it was 20% or so that were not caring. My views on a lot of things changed- having kids does that to a lot of people. But what I am getting at is because I quit hunting Sage Grouse for personal reasons doesn't mean they ever went off the radar- probably the opposite happened. I am certainly follow the issues more than I ever have . 99% on the hunters side but try to use the old "Spock" method- put the issue on a balance scale- consider the facts- try to keep emotion out of it ( which is hard) and side with what ever side of the scale weighs heavy. I understand where Airborne is coming from and he certainly has a very valid point - I just have to do what I have to do to keep everything sane in my pea brain. and think others can. Just can't forget what got you to the point and realize your actions or thoughts effect a lot of other things on the horizon also not just the one point. Keep it all under a good perspective. If the resource can stand the pressure then if it's legal I don't have much of a problem with it- just doesn't mean I have to.
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