[Airborne]

I like how the state posts the hunter satisfaction scores along with the harvest data. Ya, it's not perfect but I find it can be useful when looking at different choices going into the draw season. Since we have the new 2022 harvest data posted I decided to do some quick 10 key work last night. I am in the elk game so I only did this number crunch regarding elk. I did a simple average of the satisfaction per hunt per season type. All Units are weighted the same. These scores are on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being least satisfied with the hunt and 5 being most satisfied. Here is what I came up with:

Archery: 3.72
Muzzleloader: 4.02
Early Rifle: 4.09
Late Rifle: 3.96
Multi Season: 3.54

Mid Season: 3.60
September Archery: 3.39
HAMS: 3.70

CWMU: 4.52


These surprised me a little. Especially the Multi-season hunt. I think guys have such high expectations and put so much pressure on themselves it diminishes the hunt for them. The high satisfaction on the CWMU doesn't really surprise me as they are including guided paying clients in this so I can see that being skewed. I wish they would only list the satisfaction of the public hunter, I would bet those scores would drop.

Using this along with harvest stats I would say the best value for your points is Muzzleloader and Late Rifle. The success % is comparable on these hunts to early rifle. Maybe if I find some time I can add in average success % to the discussion.

Interesting stuff

 

[Bux n Dux]

People are never happy, and won’t ever be completely satisfied. I’ve literally seen guys standing over a 360 bull on a 330 bull unit, that were disappointed it wasn’t a 380+ bull.

guys want an easy kill on a book animal, the first 10 minutes of the hunt. If that doesn’t happen, their attitude of satisfaction drops at a rapid pace.

my criteria for a 5 is:
-did I have fun?
-did I see game that was in an area I could access them if I wanted to?
-did I have an opportunity?
-did I fill a tag?
If I answered “yes” to 2 or more of those questions, it’s a 5.

 

[BigT]

The high satisfaction on the CWMU doesn't really surprise me as they are including guided paying clients in this so I can see that being skewed.

I've been involved with enough CWMU hunts that I know that many "paying" hunters are there for the overall experience. Some are there to kill the book trophy that most outfitters throw up on their Facebook page.. They leave off the smaller bucks / bulls! Many that I am involved in are hunters there on a corporate experience so they didn't even pay the bill or the tip... So yeah I think that their review could be skewed as some would rather see it. But I know for a fact if you look at the harvest results, there's a ton of dudes paying out the rear that are eating tag soup! In reference to public hunters on the CWMU, again I think it depends on the unit. Many provide guides now a days to the public hunter not to steer them clear of areas they don't want them in, but rather to increase their experience and chance at a harvest. The public opinion and comments to the CWMU board can make or break that particular CWMU.

 

[colorcountrygunner]

Yeah, I've been seeing guys in the know talking about the LE muzzleloader elk hunt being the primo hunt for awhile. The early rifle hunt usually falls just a little earlier than ideal, and then the muzzy guys get the best rutting and bugling action all while drawing the tag with less points. My wife is currently in a great position to draw a top unit for muzzleloader with her 20 something (22 maybe?) elk points. Every year she just wants to do a bonus point because we are so "busy" apparently. I guarantee if I was the one with the pile of points we would somehow find the time.

 

[Airborne]

ok--had a minute at lunch so here is the Average Harvest % per season type, not weighted, simple average:

Archery: 43.0%
Muzzleloader: 74.4%
Early Rifle: 81.9%
Late Rifle: 79.9%
Multi Season: 84.6%

Mid Season: 66.8%
September Archery: 37.0%
HAMS: 64.9%

CWMU: 80.7%

Multi Season has the highest harvest and the second lowest satisfaction--hmmm. Lots of self pressure there me thinks

I kind of find it funny that folks say the early rifle rut hunt is so easy (which it is) but the harvest % is about the same as the late rifle. Take away there is if you moved those tags out of the rut to November you would probably kill about the same # of bulls. The Mid Season success is lower but still really high compared to any other elk hunt in the western US. Even the archery hunt success is dang good at 43%, maybe only AZ can come close to that number. If this was weighted per hunter these success %'s would decrease some especially in Archery as the high tag units like Wasatch and Manti have a lot of tags and lower success. HAMS were decent with a satisfaction close to archery but a higher harvest rate. The September Archery hunts might be ones to stay clear of unless you only have a couple points. Still better success than the general archery any bull and probably better than the vast majority of surrounding states archery elk hunts.

Utah really is special regarding our LE Elk hunts. They are world class

I would bet lunch that when we get the harvest data next year that the mid season hunt success is going to be around 65%-70% overall and that is going to be a good point value to cash in on.

 

[colorcountrygunner]

I wonder if the restructuring of LE elk seasons and changing the age class will help abate point creep to any significant level, or if we will continue seeing such a steady uptick of applicants that it will undo any efforts on that front.

 

[Bux n Dux]

If you are familiar with the unit you’re hunting, the late rifle hunt is the easiest hunt this state has for bulls. If you aren’t familiar with the unit, it most likely can be a nightmare.

 

[Vanilla]

Multi Season has the highest harvest and the second lowest satisfaction--hmmm. Lots of self pressure there me thinks

One thing to keep in mind here is that there are a lot less of these tags than the others. One low satisfaction rating in the multi-season hunt has a much larger impact on dropping the average rating than one low score on the rifle hunt. I'm not disputing the fact that these people that have by and large waited the very longest to draw in some cases have unrealistic expectations, but I think this lower satisfaction gets skewed easier by one or two people than in the other pools.

I wonder if the restructuring of LE elk seasons and changing the age class will help abate point creep to any significant level, or if we will continue seeing such a steady uptick of applicants that it will undo any efforts on that front.

It will absolutely help more hunters draw tags, but I don't think it's going to help with point creep. Everyone keeps trying to help with point creep, and I think it's an "unhelpable" issue. Too many people want too few tags, and that is not going to change. Ever.

 

[backcountry]

Is this where the Cakemeister reminds us about "Full Random Draw"? I ask as I've been sold on it now.

Given the original ideas and statements I have to wonder if it wouldn't help eliminate some of that internalized pressure that can be unrealistic. Then again, it probably builds up wether you have points or not. Scarcity can be the core driver of such pressure.

 

[Vanilla]

“It took me 23 points to draw this tag and I may never again” doesn’t feel much different much different than “it took me 36 years to draw this tag and I may never again.”

Full random draw eliminates the symptom of point creep, but it doesn’t solve the underlying problem. It just changes the name.

 

[taxidermist]

I believe to many hunters go into day one with a high expectation of a great book animal. After the "easy hunt" shock wears off without pics and a tag punched, they either get upset and efforts diminish. Then you have those have a "real expectation" of what they are getting into and don't think there is a book animal around every ridge. These IMO are the successful hunters and have a higher rating of their hunt.

 

[Airborne]

Utah has a good point system. Half tags to points, half to random. Wait long enough and you can draw something guaranteed or you get lucky before that time. Full random ya might never draw.

 

[Lone_Hunter]

I believe to many hunters go into day one with a high expectation of a great book animal. After the "easy hunt" shock wears off without pics and a tag punched, they either get upset and efforts diminish. Then you have those have a "real expectation" of what they are getting into and don't think there is a book animal around every ridge. These IMO are the successful hunters and have a higher rating of their hunt.

I hope that will be me when I get my LE tag. I categorically won't be putting in for a unit I haven't hunted for the last several years. My expectations are simple: Get a bull when I otherwise was limited to a spike. Period, End of story.

 

[Critter]

Utah has a good point system. Half tags to points, half to random. Wait long enough and you can draw something guaranteed or you get lucky before that time. Full random ya might never draw.

You might never draw that coveted tag with Utah's point system.

I know several hunters who took points to the grave.

 

[Bux n Dux]

You might never draw that coveted tag with Utah's point system.

I know several hunters who took points to the grave.

Much of that was a choice for people with a lot of points. If you have 15 points, you are definitely choosing to not hunt bulls if you all you want was just the opportunity and experience to chase a mature bull elk in your life time

 

[MrShane]

Utah has a good point system. Half tags to points, half to random. Wait long enough and you can draw something guaranteed or you get lucky before that time. Full random ya might never draw.

Utah’s system is the best, most fair system out of all the systems.

 

[MrShane]

Yeah, I've been seeing guys in the know talking about the LE muzzleloader elk hunt being the primo hunt for awhile. The early rifle hunt usually falls just a little earlier than ideal, and then the muzzy guys get the best rutting and bugling action all while drawing the tag with less points. My wife is currently in a great position to draw a top unit for muzzleloader with her 20 something (22 maybe?) elk points. Every year she just wants to do a bonus point because we are so "busy" apparently. I guarantee if I was the one with the pile of points we would somehow find the time.

Sounds to me is she is so busy you now have 11 points to use for you!

 

[Critter]

Much of that was a choice for people with a lot of points. If you have 15 points, you are definitely choosing to not hunt bulls if you all you want was just the opportunity and experience to chase a mature bull elk in your life time

Unless you are going after OIL tags.

 

[Bux n Dux]

Unless you are going after OIL tags.

Since the conversation has been about LE elk, I assumed you were talking about that still. You are correct. You might not ever draw a OIL tag in utah. Thankfully there are many other great hunts available to enjoy during your lifetime while hopefully waiting your turn for a OIL tag.

 

[Critter]

On the LE hunt side, the vast majority of hunters in Utah will put in for one unit and one weapon only until the either draw the tag or stop hunting.

Could they draw a tag in another unit quicker, quite possibly. They could also change weapon choice, but they want that one unit and one weapon.

You can see that here on the forum when we get a new resident member asking about a unit that they have never step foot into.

My brother in law was almost like what I described. He only wanted to hunt with a rifle but he was willing to learn new places, as long as he could hunt deer with a rifle