[HunterGeek]

I read an interesting article in the Tribune from Tom Wharton at http://sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_6809767

Here's the first paragraph: "Utah ought to get away from the sham that the public owns wildlife and is a part of its management. If truth in advertising were in effect, the Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR) would be called the Division of Hunting and Angling."

He goes on to describe how a former non-hunting RAC member says the entire thing was rigged to promote hunting and fishing, and then blames special interest groups like Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

Okay, he's right about SFW having way too much say in what should be a public process, but you've got to give them credit for going to bat for us -- like them or not. Am I wrong?

 

[Mojo1]

Okay, he's right about SFW having way too much say in what should be a public process, but you've got to give them credit for going to bat for us -- like them or not. Am I wrong?

I think that's a tough call for the DWR. SFW does a lot for Utah's wildlife and it'd be difficult for the DWR to tell them to drop off the check and keep quiet and leave the wildlife management to them.

I also think that the RAC members, wildlife board or any other committee that is part of DWR, should in no way have a member from a conservation group.

This is just my opinion and not a knock on any conservation group.

+1

 

[Finnegan]

Okay, he's right about SFW having way too much say in what should be a public process, but you've got to give them credit for going to bat for us -- like them or not. Am I wrong?

A fraud is a fraud. Even if you like the outcome of a fraud, it doesn't make it right. When SFW started out, their main recruitment hook was that the anti-hunters were going to take our hunts away. But it wasn't anti-hunters that did that. And it still isn't anti-hunters that are working to keep most of us off the mountain so that a select few can have big trophies.

I believe that the end should always justify the means. In the case of SFW and the RAC process, it doesn't even come close. And what really concerns me is that we haven't come to the end, yet. But it's easy enough to realize which way the wind is blowing.

Jim Karpowitz says, "It is those who pay for...trophies who should get to hunt for them." That's a major shift in the DWR's policy and one that I think is alarming.

The "best friend Utah hunters have" has told us that if we don't like the elk age management objectives, (and according to the RACs, we don't) we can just go hunt in Colorado. Let's all give a big "Yes, Sir!" to that one, eh?

Several of Utah's elk units have a near one to one bull cow ratio, yet still there is no intention to issue adequate LE tags on those units, despite the best wisdom of the DWR's big game director and the regional biologists. Quoting Anise Aoude, "We could issue a lot more LE tags on those units for several years and not hurt the quality." So if the DWR knows this, why aren't they doing it? So a handful of hunters want to negotiate by ending the spike hunt in hopes of getting a few "controlled" tags instead. What's wrong with this picture?

Utah's public lands are disappearing fast. That's not relevant here. But what is relevant is that SFW and the DWR actively recruit CWMUs even when the private lands involved have been formerly open to public hunting and are receiving money (can you guess the source) for improvements such as ATV trails, fences and habitat enhancements designed specifically to draw wildlife from adjacent public lands. Meantime, there's some serious questions being avoided by the DWR when it comes to the boundaries of some of those CWMUs or their qualifications for the program.

The DWR recently conducted a public poll of the RAC process. Where are the results of that poll? Nobody curious about why the results are being withheld? When it comes to the point that the public has to take legal measures in order to obtain public information from a government agency like the DWR, something's not right.

Utah gives more big game tags to private organizations than any other state in the U.S. and no public accounting is made for the money generated from the auction of those tags. But as the creator of that little give away says, "Trust us." And what's really bizarre is that we do! No wonder Utah has a reputation for being a con man's paradise.

In the comments to the cited article, there's a couple great points that warrant concern. Among them is a reference to SFW and the DWR as being farmers. I think the comment is right on and since I don't want to hunt livestock, I don't see a lot of good being done right now and certainly no enough to overlook the bigger picture.

 

[GaryFish]

I don't see anything wrong with the concept that fishing and hunting interests are foremost in the management of wildlife in Utah. We ARE! Hunters and fishermen do, and should rule wildlife management. So why is that a fraud? Most other states have "Fish and Game" departments, keeping it clear that hunters and fishermen drive the agenda. I guess that is the misconception with the term "Division of Wildlife Resources."

Second - I think the public has TOO big of a role in wildlife management. I really believe that we would have healthier herds and fish populations if the populations could be scientifically managed instead of politically.

 

[grousehunter]

I think the DWR needs to go back to being public servants, I have sent a few emails to the CWMU manager and he continues to ignore them. Do you have to go a RAC meeting and raise a fuss in order to get a question answered? I can understand this guys frustrations with the process because I am getting sick of public land being locked up behind CWMU.

 

[wyoming2utah]

I don't see anything wrong with the concept that fishing and hunting interests are foremost in the management of wildlife in Utah. We ARE! Hunters and fishermen do, and should rule wildlife management. So why is that a fraud? Most other states have "Fish and Game" departments, keeping it clear that hunters and fishermen drive the agenda. I guess that is the misconception with the term "Division of Wildlife Resources."

Second - I think the public has TOO big of a role in wildlife management. I really believe that we would have healthier herds and fish populations if the populations could be scientifically managed instead of politically.

+1

I, too, believe that the RAC process and wildlife board is a joke...afterall, these people are not professional game managers. Once this process was created by the our former governor Leavitt, we opened up the door of game management to political fraud and lobbying. This, in turn, has led to the rise of special interest groups who are more powerful than the DWR. I don't believe that wildlife management should ever have been turned into a public process...

 

[elk22hunter]

I read an interesting article in the Tribune from Tom Wharton at http://sltrib.com/outdoors/ci_6809767

Here's the first paragraph: "Utah ought to get away from the sham that the public owns wildlife and is a part of its management. If truth in advertising were in effect, the Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR) would be called the Division of Hunting and Angling."

He goes on to describe how a former non-hunting RAC member says the entire thing was rigged to promote hunting and fishing, and then blames special interest groups like Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

Tom Wharton needs to address the bigger issue. It has been hashed over and over about the fact that the DWR caters to the sportsman more than the tree huggers. I heard it brought up by a tree hugger at a rac and the spokesman for the dwr gave a great reply. He said "Ok, you feel that we do more for the hunters than the viewers? Let me explain why. The hunters pay out x amount of dollars every year that pays our wages, helps us in rehabitation, and in all aspects of our job, we rely on the sportsmans dollars. We have not figured out a way for the photographers, and viewers to help out in this work. They take from it and expect there to be animals to view but in no way contribute to the work. We need the sportsmans dollars to survive."

 

[wileywapati]

ELK the issue you just described is the exact issue that many NON TREEHUGGERS dont get.
Look what the treehuggers did to our old DWR forum!! Shut that sumbitch down lickity split!!

Less than 10% of society hunt. More than 10% are adamant anti hunters!! It's the other
approximate 80% that we need to keep on our side. Keep up with the arrogant attitude
get the wrong governor in place to appoint someone more spineless that good old Karp and
you've got the makings of a real disaster.

How freaking arrogant do we need to be, well sportsmen pay for the wildlife we all enjoy.
well I have no kids in the public school system does this mean that I can run down to the local high school and tell the english teacher how to teach the class because I pay my fair share of taxes??? Oh wait I pay tuition for private school for my two kids does this mean I really get to let the public school teacher have it???

As misguided or not misguided as some opinions are ( and mine is probably one of them )
we need to get over ourselves. Just because we buy a hunting license or drop $25.00
to join a sportsmans group doesn't mean we are any more entitled to a public resource than
any other taxpayer in the state. Once the general public figures this out and starts "stacking the RACs" Look out!!!

 

[Treehugnhuntr]

Good points Gordy. Do we REALLy want non consumptive users pushing their agendas?

Like Gordy stated, they number 90% If just a fraction of themm got serious about it, we would be S.O.L.. We need to make sure the picture we paint is in soft, vivid colors that appeal to the most eyes possible. The 80% "undecided" is a very important sect to show our best paintings to.

There are a certain # of hunters that will paint an ugly picture with no regard to these people (Very few of whom will see these posts.) by doing what they do out of a sense of entitlement and by blatently not thinking or caring what it is their actions result in.

Therefore, It is up to us as responsible sportsmen and women to educate (Not to be confused with pushing one's ethics on them) them about being accountable for our/their actions and what the result of neglecting these responsibilities might look like.

Every time someone sees an archer cutting through someones yard or hunting too close to homes on the Wasatch, discarding beercans on the trail, riding on unmarked trails or many of the other things that shed an unwanted an unflattering light on the rest of us, we are that much closer to staying home in the fall. Every time someone is overheard talking of the one that got away due to careless and/or reckless behavior, there is possibility of that being the last straw for a fence sitter. It is up to us as not only stewards of the game we persue, but stewards of the masses we represent, to educate with velvet gloves, our brothers who share the passion for the very things that many of us live for.

I would like to challenge each and every one of you to make a positive contribution to what it is you love, by taking a hard look at your reactions and or behavior when you are in the field. Remember, you are representing all of us.

 

[wileywapati]

AMEN TREE

 

[elk22hunter]

What in the heck are we talking about????????????????????????????????????/

 

[Treehugnhuntr]

The science behind poop sticking together. :wink:

 

[wyoming2utah]

Less than 10% of society hunt.

This is why I am adamantly against the elimination of general season hunting (if it is biologically not going to hurt herds/game populations) and am a proponent of youth hunting tags...as hunters we need to do what we can to recruit new hunters who will keep the hunting tradition alive. If we don't keep recruiting new hunters, our hunting priveleges will slowly fade away!

 

[elk22hunter]

Less than 10% of society hunt.

This is why I am adamantly against the elimination of general season hunting (if it is biologically not going to hurt herds/game populations) and am a proponent of youth hunting tags...as hunters we need to do what we can to recruit new hunters who will keep the hunting tradition alive. If we don't keep recruiting new hunters, our hunting priveleges will slowly fade away!

+1

 

[wileywapati]

WYO2 and ELK I knew there was something I liked about you two.
Not only do ya need to recruit kids but they must experience success.

 

[elk22hunter]

I know this isn't helping with the argument about Utah and the Racs and all but If we wan't to give kids success then put in for Wyoming Antelope. Don't put in close to Utah as that is too hard to draw but plan on a 7 hour drive from the wasatch area and take those kids to hunt some big game. It is a blast and relatively cheap. The trophy difference of bucks age differences aren't as big as say mule deer so they don't feel bad about shooting a spike or something but most all Pronghorn are respectable size and you will have them hooked on Big game hunting.

Ok, I am off from my hi-jacking soap box and we can get back to the thread of Dwr Rac's.

 

[wapiti67]

This thread hasnt been talked about in awhile...

 

[elk22hunter]

This thread hasnt been talked about in awhile...

Good reminder and I love your signature. Although the bull that I am looking for is the size of the chapter and verse.

 

[elkfromabove]

Two points!
1- While it's true that we must put our best foot forward for the 80%, and not be confrontational, we aren't unique in this responsibility. Wildlife viewers, campers, photographers, ATVers, hikers, bikers, skiers, sight seers, firewood gatherers, etc. have that same responsibility and thus are in no position to blame the problems solely on hunters and anglers. There are more of them than us and the trash, noise, abandoned campfires, cut trees, etc. is probably proportional. We need to "clean up" our act, but we shouldn't take a back seat to those that complain.

2- If wildlife isn't managed primarily for hunters and anglers and that permit money is reduced (along with the local, State and Federal funds generated by us), we aren't the only ones to suffer. Those that are complaining (and the 80%) will also come to regret that lose. What they don't realize is that the efforts to manage game and fish spills over into nearly all wildlife, and when the funds aren't there to manage fish and game, the funds aren't there to manage butterflies either!

 

[Iron Bear]

The greatest tool treehuggers have had to reduce the amount of hunters in Utah and hunting activity. Predators and the same goes for the conservation groups. Maintaining large predator populations have limited supply and increased demand and had us all running scared that hunting in a downturn. Then sold you habitat as the primary reason for decline and you need to pony up some money for the effort.
:V|: