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Last year during the archery hunt I kept seeing a "bachelorette herd" of about 7 does with no fawns. That was so weird and unsettling.
While I don't hunt there, our family has some property on the Wasatch and I spend a fair amount of time in the summer in the area. Last June, as we were coming off that dry spring, the mountains were dry and plant growth was terrible. I remember making a mental note to myself how scroungy and skeletal the deer looked. Then we got those fortunate monsoon rains and the mountain greened up. Once that happened, the deer looked better eventually, but I noted the deer eating like there was no tomorrow. One doe was so intent on eating that I snuck within a few feet of it and I wondered if I could reach out and pet her. She saw me but didn't care. We did have a few fawns pull through up there but I doubt they would have if the rains didn't come.
 

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We sure talk a lot about watering lawns -- but how come nobody ever talks about suspending building permits?

what's the human consumption vs. my lawn? So I stop watering my lawn, and they construct a new 300 unit complex. What was the net gain in water?



Also -- is send water from Canda really "down" or is it south? I'm pretty sure there is a lot of up hill between British Columbia and Utah. Otherwise, they wouldn't have to send it "down", it would just flow. So, if you have to pipe it and pump it, then can't we look to a closer source? I mean, that Columbia is a big river, and a lot of that water ends up in the ocean too.

Hell, screw it. Let's just go hook on to some icebergs, and bring them to Utah to replenish our reservoirs. In fact, let's require it for developers. 1-to-1 ratio -- for each building permit 1 large iceberg must be brought in.
 
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87% of Utah's water goes to agriculture, 9% goes to cities for lawns and drinking and the remaining 4% goes to business/industry

).

Folks here talk about human population growth and lawns like it's the big boogie man taking all the states water.

I am not dissing the agricultural industry here, merely saying it is the elephant in the room that everyone ignores. You want to save water in Utah--improve the way agriculture uses water so there is less waste. We are talking 87% here--letting every lawn dry up in the state is going to give ya like 4% more water--whoopy do! Transition farmers away from flood irrigation to more effective forms could save multiple times that. All it takes is $
 

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Some were projecting years ago that water would be the next disputed resource. I think at some point, states involved in the Colorado river compact of 1922 will probably reevaluate that piece of legislation. Particularly as political divides widen. My understanding is it was an entirely one sided deal beneifitting everyones favorite west coast state building cities in the desert - that and Las Vegas in Nevada. Generally speaking most of the population centers in the SW probably shouldn't exist.

If I were to make a long reaching apocalyptic prediction, it would be not enough water to grow crops to support the current human population. Not to mention the "Green agenda" trying to do away with fossil fuels, which makes modern agriculture possible. Realistically, as a species we've artificially inflated the carrying capacity of the land for some time. A guy like BIll Gates doesn't become America's largest farmland owner for nor reason. When people don't get enough to eat, expect things to get nasty. Maybe that's what they want?

I'm just a ray of sunshine this morning....
 

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I'm surprised that someone hasn't started a pipeline from up in Canada down to the west here. They could pipe water into some reservoirs and lakes that already exist and then run pipes out of them down to the arid west. I don't believe that it would take too much to get a pipeline into the Green River drainage to feed Flaming Gorge which in turn could be used to feed Lake Powell.
Really? You mean starting a pipeline that crosses the Rocky Mountains...doesn't sound too easy to me.
 

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Truck it in. Have a fleet of tanker rigs bringing it in from....wherever.... With the fuel prices now at an all time high, I'm sure it would only cost $10-$15 a gallon. :rolleyes:

We'll never run out of water, so just go ahead and wash the driveway with the hose into the gutter and leave the sprinkler heads spraying on the sidewalk. Oh, ya....this is the one that gets me, Make sure your watering your lawn when it's raining.

I haven't even turned on my sprinkler system to see if anything broke over the winter, no need to, When the temps get to be 65 and above at night, that's when you should begin to water the grass.

Doesn't really matter if one person on the block is being "water aware" and doing what they feel is best to conserve water, if, the remaining 10 homes on the block are watering every day.
 

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Really? You mean starting a pipeline that crosses the Rocky Mountains...doesn't sound too easy to me.
With the new technology in tunnel boring it isn't so far fetched.

There are a number of tunnel bores in Utah already taking water from the Green River drainage and sending it into the Wasatch Front area. The same with Colorado, tunnel bores going from the Colorado River drainage and sending it to the Arkansas and South Platte Rivers for the folks on the Front Range.
 

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With the new technology in tunnel boring it isn't so far fetched.

There are a number of tunnel bores in Utah already taking water from the Green River drainage and sending it into the Wasatch Front area. The same with Colorado, tunnel bores going from the Colorado River drainage and sending it to the Arkansas and South Platte Rivers for the folks on the Front Range.
Ok, but the distance alone is daunting. Not to mention issues of elevation increases, crossing borders, EISs, etc. The better solution, to me, at least is stop developing and start recognizing where we live and the need to live within our own water means.
 

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I'm just trying to figure out the best rout from "Canada" to Utah.

Water Water resources Azure Wood Tree
 

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When they shut down swimming pools and golf courses thats when it will get attention !
This is more true than most cities and residents care to admit.

On our farm we have water shares, with dedicated ownership of water, yet the city sees fit to curb the amount we are delivered, while they put the remainder into their pressurized irrigation pond. The golf courses stay green and the city parks are green. The neighbors' lawns are green. The fish die as they pull 100% now for the ponds. Oh, and they built a large recreational lake on top of a porous substrate, then tried to fill it and failed, then tried to line it and it still leaches. The city's culinary water wells are failing. The trees that lined the some irrigation ditches are dying now the water is in a pipe. It is a mess in our area.
 

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Seriously, though. Piping it in from "Canada" would be silly. I mean, why cross the Columbia? Do you guys realize how much water enters the Columbia from Canada? It just seems silly to go further north than the Columbia to deliver something already being delivered by nature.

And, if we're going to do that, then why not just divert the Snake, and pipe, or divert, water to Idaho to compensate for the Snake...
 

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You are not going to stop developments, and in the cities they are just growing upward if not outward. The base water need is the same no matter where homes or apartments are built. And as the population grows the people need to live somewhere.

I agree that the distance is daunting but something needs to be done and using water from areas that have a excess is about the only way. You would think that by using existing reservoirs and river systems it should be able to be done.

Most of the farms have already converted over to sprinkler irrigation, but there are still those that use flood irrigation. Doing away with lawns is also a help but not that much. With a lot of the new grasses out there that don't require very much water people can have a small lawn, but do away with that Kentucky Blue grass that you need to dump gallons upon gallons on it to keep it green
 

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Don't worry Packout -- the combination of the Green and Cozzens will surely fix the issues.

In the meantime, let's just watch all these new neighborhoods pop up everywhere.
 

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Seriously, though. Piping it in from "Canada" would be silly. I mean, why cross the Columbia? Do you guys realize how much water enters the Columbia from Canada? It just seems silly to go further north than the Columbia to deliver something already being delivered by nature.

And, if we're going to do that, then why not just divert the Snake, and pipe, or divert, water to Idaho to compensate for the Snake...
Because of the impacts on anadromous fish species. There are minimum flows required and while the Columbia is a big river it doesn't have as much water to spare as you might think.

Yeah, you should get guff for watering your lawn vs residential building permits or agriculture. Your lawn is ornamental. People need homes and that comes with plumbing (and unfortunately more dumb lawns just like yours) and agriculture being part of commercial industry is a higher priority than you want your yard to look nice.

Y'all live in the desert, and one that has a rapidly growing population for some reason. Shouldn't matter if you've been there since before Fathers Dominguez and Escalante came to town or just moved from [insert liberal hellscape] yesterday, nobody should be wasting water. And ornamental uses should be the first to go.
 

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My honest thought is the drought breaks in the next few years and swings back the other way and is wet for a couple decades. A lot of the data from the years we have tracked, shows the swings are inevitable, but getting more extreme. So the problems will likely get worse but given historical data we should see a wet period after the dry period.
 

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Johhny -- so, you're saying to not take water from the Snake due to anadromous fish or the Columbia because it doesn't have water to spare? To be clear -- none of the other rivers in Canada would be any different (Fraser, Skeena, Saskatchewan, Mackenzie).

It's just such a laughable concept to bring water in from Canada.



FWIW -- I have no lawn. yet.
 

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Johhny -- so, you're saying to not take water from the Snake due to anadromous fish or the Columbia because it doesn't have water to spare? To be clear -- none of the other rivers in Canada would be any different (Fraser, Skeena, Saskatchewan, Mackenzie).

It's just such a laughable concept to bring water in from Canada.



FWIW -- I have no lawn. yet.
I've never said bringing water from Canada makes sense. What I did say was that AK proposed a water pipeline to California in the 90s (subsea to CA IIRC). For the record, AK has about ⅓ of the annual freshwater runoff for the entire US, and most of our water is not already dedicated/claimed unlike the western states. Various studies from the feds in the 90s also found it very unlikely that diverting flow for such a pipeline from near the outlets of either the Stikine river in SE AK or the Copper River in PWS would have a negligible impact on anadromous fish or other species present. Neither river has any dams, little to no agricultural or residential use dependency, etc.


But, those studies are about 30 years old now, and maybe if repeated the findings would be different. Regardless, it would still likely be much cheaper to pursue local water efficiency measures and frivolous uses like your future lawn should be at the top of the list. Now, if you planned to capture the grey water from your residence to water it that would be a better option that using culinary or irrigation water, but I'm willing to bet that such a system is not in your plans.

But if you really want to get my blood boiling, we can talk about the absurd water wastes for ornamental lawns that lie at the feet of churches, cities, and schools.


I am not gonna lie, water responsibility is pretty low on the list of reasons I moved to Alaska, but it sure is great not having to feel that stress as I see the snow melting on the mountains each year or watching snowpack totals and reservoir capacity.
 

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Johnny -- for clarification, I didn't mean to infer you said bringing water from Canada made sense. I was actually supporting your comment of why the Snake and Columbia were bad ideas, and adding other drainages to that list.

I'm on my own private well. I'm also on a septic tank. My water use goes straight back into the ground (with some evaporation). Flood irrigation in my area doesn't bother me because some of that water is going right back down for me.

The new Mayor has grand plans for water reuse from the city wastewater treatment plant. We also have a pipeline planned to bring water from the southwest desert. These are all good things for water -- but will ultimately fail if we continue to grow uncontrollably. I hate that the whole goal of "conserving" water is for one reason: support growth.

I support effective water management. I support water development -- something severely lacking in Iron County. I support good efforts to improve our quality of life.

I don't support forcing residences to stop watering their lawns so that developers and real estate agents (and former developers and real estate agents turned politicians) can make a bunch of money building new homes using the water that I'm saving for them. Sorry.
 
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