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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is a letter that I just recieved inviting me to go along on a round up of sorts if I wanted to. I don't know that it is an open invitation for whoever but I thought that I'd pass it along. There has been many skeptics, Peay haters and outright ornery people about SFW. I would like to post this that I am very proud to be a part of.

Fight it, love it, hate it, jump on board or bury your head in the sand. The work will go on to make Utah a better hunting state just as it has since SFW and FNAWS has been involved.

Hope to see you at the banquet.

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The Utah DWR will be capturing up to 50 Bighorn sheep on Antelope Island on Jan. 2 and 3rd. Volanteers are welcome to help, but please RSVP so lunch can be provided in sufficient numbers.

Meet at the Causeway entrance at 6:20 a.m. on each morning. Obviously warm clothing, etc. required.

RSVP to [email protected] or [email protected]

The objective is transplant 20 Rams onto the Newfoundland Mountains, and 15 Rams and 15 Ewes and lambs to the Stansbury Mts.

If successful, this transplant will dramatically increase the herd expansion and hunting opportunities on the Newfoundlands - where hunting of bighorn currently exists on the 125 bighorn herd, and the Stansbury Mts, where approximately 75 sheep exists.

The Foundation for North American Wild Sheep (FNAWS) invested $75,000 to secure habitat on the Newfoundland Mts, and over $65,000 to secure habitat on the Stansbury Mts, thus clearing the wasy to start these two new herds of bighorn sheep. This does NOT include the cost to raise the money, or the negotiations and management plan amendment efforts to allow for the transplants to take place, nor the original transplant costs.

Transplant capture and other costs for this transplant will be in excess of $30,000 and will be funded by FNAWS as well.

The DWR will coordinate and conduct the actual capture and release.

On Jan. 17, the Utah DWR will also capture up to 30 Bison from the Henry Mts. And release them in the Book Cliffs, per the recently approved Bison plan. More information will be available for the Bison transplant, but that will be a historic event as well.

SFW has recently successfully completed drilling a 500 foot water well down on the Henry Mts, solar pumps are being ordered, and a water storage system will be in place soon. This action, along with a 3,000 acre habitat improvement project nearby will open up thousands of acres for additional use by Bison, Mule Deer and Livestock on the Henry Mts. Total project cost around $50,000.

Just an FYI, the Governor Deer tag, and two Henry Deer tags generated more than $250,000 for 2007. Funds from these tags will benefit the Henry's and other deer herds as well.

Please contact me with any Questions, thanks for your support, your money at work.

Don Peay
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

It sounds like SFW is doing a lot of great things for our wildlife :D. I dont see why a lot of people would be against them when they do MORE good than bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

InvaderZim said:
Sportsmen for who? :wink:
Sportsman for YOU buddy.
:D
Its hard to argue with the pudding when the proof is in it.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

It is easier to bad-mouth those who get their hands dirty while sitting on one's rump, than it is to be one of those getting their hands dirty.

Truth is, SFW is the biggest reason for turkeys in this state (yes even bigger than NWTF), they have raised several hundred thousands of dollars to transplant/relocate bighorn sheep, they have raised/spent MILLIONS for habitat that benefits ALL wildlife throughout ALL parts of the state, helped lobby for more money from the state/feds, purchased critical winter range and kept thousands of acres from being developed, helped be a major factor in the wolf situation in the west, and on and on. Love them or hate them, one thing is for certain, they are out there doing SOMETHING, as opposed to the countless so called sportsmen doing NOTHING but whine/complain about the state of hunting in Utah. The days of sitting idly by and having wildlife just 'be there' to hunt and enjoy are long gone. SFW is NOT perfect, nor is any one sportsman out there, but those who take time out of their busy lives to improve/keep what we have should get a huge kudos, instead of the usual complaints.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

elk22hunter said:
InvaderZim said:
Sportsmen for who? :wink:
Sportsman for YOU buddy.
:D
Its hard to argue with the pudding when the proof is in it.
Oh.

You gonna post any more pics of your sons? :wink:
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

On first read I missed the Bison deal, then I read my e-mail that says the exact same thing as yours. 8) Transplanting bison onto the Book Cliffs is HUGE!! The end goal is 450 bison on the Books, that will be more than what the objective for the Henries is. SFW put a tom of time/money/blood/sweat/tears on this project.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

On first read I missed the Bison deal, then I read my e-mail that says the exact same thing as yours. 8) Transplanting bison onto the Book Cliffs is HUGE!! The end goal is 450 bison on the Books, that will be more than what the objective for the Henries is. SFW put a tom of time/money/blood/sweat/tears on this project.
Thats true Don Peay got up and talked about it at the Wildlife board meeting. He said thousands of dollars were spent and many hours of paper work and meetings with the BLM, County Commissioners, Landowners, the Indian Tribe etc. This will give hunters one more opportunity to hunt buffalo here in Utah. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

You are right on with the Books. The Henries have their hands tied with the cattlemen there. They are only allowed 275 mature animals. The cattlemen are dead set on keeping it that way. That is why they ruined so many guys and gals hunts this year by adding extra hunts and hunters. The Cowboys flew over the mountain and counted over 500 mature animals. They then went to the DWR and demanded that they get the numbers in line. They are going to be hunting bigger numbers for the next few years.

The Books will maintain 450 giving them the bigger number and will be the one giving out the most tags. Seems strange but it will be a nice addition.

Sheep will be on nearly every mountain. I think it's awesome. We talk about hunting being a high cost and how will our kids afford it. Our kids will have much more opportunity than we did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

InvaderZim said:
You gonna post any more pics of your sons? :wink:
Not now!

I thought it was my daughters that you thought were cute?
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

elk22hunter said:
InvaderZim said:
You gonna post any more pics of your sons? :wink:
Not now!

I thought it was my daughters that you thought were cute?
Did you forget who you are talking to?
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

Ok, 22, I will admit that if you stand in your shoes and look at it from your angle, it looks a little like a monkey, but if you come over here and look at it from this angle, it looks a bit like a bannana. Which does not make either of us wrong, nor does it make Don a god, nor does it make him a devil, it just makes us look at the same thing a bit different. I will explain why from the angle, or Level, if you want to make a pretty good joke about how tall I'm not, it looks a bit like a bannana. The work they do is not bad, it will benefit some, not usually many, but some, ('many' if you look at it from a different angle, like say the spot you might be standing from, but only some from over and down here), but it has a different smell to it than how they explain what it is they are doing. In other words, if I say, look at all my efforts, I have put mine and others resources together to benefit the masses, and you stop there, then you might think I am a pretty cool sort of dude, (I am). And if it did benefit me, then good for all of us, but evidence, not necassarily in fact, shows that MOTIVE, might be a bit more selfish. Now, that is not wrong, to some it tastes sweet, to me I have never liked the taste it has left in my mouth. I really am not a Don hater, nor a SFW basher, I don't think you could ever prove that I have done that, but I have voiced my feelings, about how I feel, with my feelings, and I have never felt strong about the movement that, in this case wants to provide an easier way for huge bucks to quench their thirst, and grow bigger, and bigger in an area that it is a lot more likely they will hunt than I will. I guess they feel that since a guy like me hunted it for eight strait years before they closed it down to the general public, I got my fill, and don't need to hunt it any more.

Let me ask a simple quetion to ask, and a difficult question to answer, If you could only have sex once in your lifetime, would that be good, or bad?

I tried to insert the smiley eating popcorn here, but you get the idea.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

good post EPEK!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

I am sorry Epek, but did you say something?

I could see your lips moving and I think that I could even hear a voice but all that I could see was that you just posted your 222nd post and it was directed to me. That in itself is amazing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

OK Epek my friend, I just drove my daughter to school from missing the bus and I had time that I had not planned on to just think.

I finally get what you are saying. We have had this discussion for a long time and it finally made sense to me from what you had mentioned in your post.

This is the best way that I can explain it. Larry Miller likes basketball. Maybe it was because he played it in high school and excelled. Maybe he was too short to play basketball and he had a longing for it for all these years and once he became very wealthy, as most wealthy people do, he became very selfish. One morning he woke up and said, "I am going to satisfy my hunger for basketball by purchasing my "own" basketball team. I will show the world how much that "I" love basketball with buying a NBA franchise and will have them to "myself." He then built a big arena that would house thousands of people but did it in a selfish act to satisfy his own needs. He is not a bad person for doing that because he does let others come to the game. The fact that litterally thousands of people go to each and every game and enjoy it immensly is neither here nor there. He gets to go to EVERY game and some people will only get to maybe one game in their life. Others will go more often but bottom line is that Larry Miller gets to go when ever he wants and we should all feel that because he did this on a selfish, thinking of himself first act even though he is willing to share it with thousands of people, that he wasn't doing it to better the comunity around him but to make himself look better in the eyes of that comunity.

I guess that when you put it that way, he isn't a bad man but..............not a good man either. :D

The only difference is Don Peay doesn't get to go to very many games. I have drawn more permits than he has by a long ways. He used to tell me that he wasn't even putting in for the draw but only points for the sheep because he didn't want to send the wrong message when he drew. Did you know that only a few short years ago, the DWR employees were not allowed to put in for draws for the very same reason of the public feeling that it was rigged if one drew. That in my oppinion is sad to bite the very hand that feeds us.

By the way your right, It is all about the "angle". :D :D :D
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

Elk22, PRO, I admire guys like you who spend alot of your personal time being involved in wildlife groups, get out to all the meetings, projects.......I guess you could say I'm a "lazy sportsmen" (any free time I had is now gone having just been called as scout master). I am not familiar enough with SFW or Mr. Peay to compliment or critisize, I only know of the orginization from what I here on this forum.

Epek, I like your analogy, I will just leave it at that. :wink:

Just a question to those who might know what percentage of SFW's efforts and funds have been directed at general season hunting ground, habitat restoration, animals.... v.s. LE or OIL? (sincere question) I'm not advocating nothing be done to improve trophy units, just recognizing that for those of us who play the draw system that will be the smallest sliver of our hunting pie.

How much of the money they raise is used to improve the hunts and hunting areas that don't draw big $$$ clients?

I honestly don't know these answers, just trying to learn more about the organization and draw my own conclusion if they have hunters (the masses) best intrest in mind.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

10000ft, I am not sure of exact numbers, but I do know a large portion of SFW funds go to improving habitat on general season areas. I would also add, to base your views/opinions on SFW from comments here is a mistake. Way to many 'urban legends' get floated around, and very little facts when it comes to stuff like this. I openly admit I do NOT approve/like 100% of what SFW does, but I **** well KNOW wildlife in Utah have benefited greatly from the work/efforts of SFW and other groups. Gov. Huntsman kicked millions of dollars in for wildlife last year as a direct result of lobbying from Don Peay, and from the HUGE tax revenue brought in from the Hunting Expo. This money did/will benefit EVERY hunter in Utah. Everyone who has hopes/dreams of hunting Bighorn sheep/Goats/Bison should be thankful for the work SFW has done for these amazing animals, and for INCREASED opportunities to hunt them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

I am not very good with numbers. Pro seems to remember them better than I. As soon as I hear a number it goes in one ear and out the other. (by the way what was the name of that last poster again? :D )(he is a scout master, I remember that much)(get it, his name is a number)

They helped in obtaining the school trust ground that was huge in "general hunting" this past year. They have done many habitat increases by funding much needed money in general areas. Again, I don't have the numbers and I do appreciate your honest questions. I don't however appreciate you making mention of EPEK's annalogy and not mine. I thought mine was every bit as genious as EPEKS. :D

I just phoned EPEK to explain another thought that I had in "HIS" favor.

He understands wrestling and we both love it so I came up with an annalogy about that.
There is a local high school (no names) that has excelled greatly in wrestling. They have a great program with many quality wrestlers. They have been in the spotlight and tops in the nation for several years. They have however through what some may call recruiting, or maybe some are simply drawn to move there because of the legacy they have built is arguable. There are local guys however that have worked hard in the room and competed for years through the little league program to finally make it to the high school and a kid from out of town shows up and takes their spot. The first kid was winning a few tournaments and even some with big names attached to them. The second kid made the school and community look better by keeping up that National ranking status because he is very dominant. It looks good in the record books and for the school but someone else who had put a lot of time and effort in, just became second fiddle to a guy who is just a little bit tougher. I have to feel for him.

Epek hunted the Henries for many years. He had some good wins but not necisarily the wins that are associated with that mountain now since it's quality level has increased because of Limited Entry. I love seeing the mountain flourish in proving to the world that we have genes and quality that know one would have ever thought possible. We had to let it grow by limiting the amount of hunters to come up with that. Yes a few get "Huge" bucks where before there were quite a few getting decent bucks. I have to feel for the guy who got ousted but on the other hand love seeing the impact that it has made in the record books.
 

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Re: Special intrest group saves our butts again!

22, I noticed you noticed that by post was 222, and then you said, you don't remember numbers, I am so confused, and I think, except for the fact that you did a very good job annolagitically explaining one of my angled positions, that you have lost a little credibilty and the prosecuting attorney would have a hey day with that one. And by the way, I love arguing SFW more than I like reading about I400.

I concede, SFW and other organizations do a great job with fairly decent intentions.

I insert: My angle is glared by my feelings about how things have been presented to me.
 

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Re: LE

This is one of the things I personally struggle with about units that are managed for maxiumum trophy size rather than good quality w/ more opportunity. People are the sum of their experiences. To me hunting is a combination of a time, a special place that holds memories and traditions, and those with whom we share the experience. There is nothing quite like a successful hunt on ground that is very special to you, even if the animal taken doesn't make the record books but is still a mature representative of the species.

EPEK and I hunted the Henry Mountains together many times. Places in those mountains embody deer hunting to me right up through the present day, and with current odds it is unlikely I will ever hunt there again in my lifetime. To me, managing in this way to provide a very small number of the largest possible trophies defeats the purpose of a public resource. Private land: Sure go for it and do whatever it takes to attract a few high paying clients. I continue to think that with both elk and deer, public LE units should be managed for representative mature animals such that the actual public occasionally gets to hunt on them.
 
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