the sky is falling

sagebrush said:

some of you really crack me up, with the new scope regs. i thought that obama and his lib army were bad. but the people around here are much worse.

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Pretty strong statement. Hunterst concerned about the future of their state and hunts are worse than "Obama and his lib army." Pretty close minded thought

Oh its going to make for some dramatic shifts for sure. ML elk odds are going to go through the roof as people switch (too bad, I was getting close to drawing ML Elk), and with the cap on ML deer tags thats going to probably be even worse. I expect it to settle down a bit in 2 or 3 years when people figure out the odds are worse than rifle deer and switch back.

I doubt people are willing to wait longer to draw a ML tag than a rifle tag just to shoot at a deer they can see better. Plus, I dont think alot of the rifle deer crowd understand how hot it is still in sept and how nocturnal the deer are. Rifle deer its usually cool enough you can hunt all day and see stuff... but ML deer, you get maybe a good hour in the morning and one in the evening and that's pretty much it.

Sky falling? No... but it will have a fairly dramatic effect IMO. Just wait till the summer odds report comes out.


-DallanC

DallanC,

What is your definition of 'through the roof' on the LE elk hunts? I think we'll see a little bit of a shift the first couple years, but I don't anticipate it to be significant.

I'm just not in the camp of people that think all the rifle hunters out there are going to run out and buy muzzleloaders now.

I don't think there will be much of a shift in those wanting to switch over to muzzleloader hunting because of this change.
Maybe a few but not that many.

well now all of those scope and gun combo's will sell at cabelas and scheels.

Vanilla said:

DallanC,

What is your definition of 'through the roof' on the LE elk hunts? I think we'll see a little bit of a shift the first couple years, but I don't anticipate it to be significant.

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I was getting near the top of the LE elk pool for a unit we have family property on that has alot of bulls. I honestly think this will add on another 5 years to my wait. I also think Gen ML deer for my unit which has been nearly guarenteed draw will slip to every other year.

We'll all see for sure come summer when the draw odds come out.

-DallanC

DallanC said:

I was getting near the top of the LE elk pool for a unit we have family property on that has alot of bulls. I honestly think this will add on another 5 years to my wait. I also think Gen ML deer for my unit which has been nearly guarenteed draw will slip to every other year.

We'll all see for sure come summer when the draw odds come out.

-DallanC

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Why don't you just openly announce which general unit your hunting deer in and then you will still be able to draw it because we all know how bad that unit sucks, with too many hunters and very few bucks.;-)

DallanC said:

I was getting near the top of the LE elk pool for a unit we have family property on that has alot of bulls. I honestly think this will add on another 5 years to my wait.
-DallanC

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I don't see a lot of people switching because of this. That said, there are units with so few ML tags issued that even 5 people switching from rifle to ML could put higher end point holders back a couple years. This very well could effect the odds on the premium units for the first couple of years, but I don't see it becoming the new trend.

I have 18 points. I have been considering for a few years switching over to a ML hunt instead of a rifle. I am still considering that. This change didn't (and won't) really impact my decision on that one way or the other. I still have to decide if I want to hunt with a ML or stick with the season/weapon I have always wanted to hunt.

Where's the love man, where's the love....

I predict no change in the ML hunts. This isn't significant enough to warrant a large change. If a scope was what shifted everyone to specific hunts the there would not be any archery hunters. With the price of ML going up over the last several years I don't think everyone is going to rush out and buy one, plus they can be intimidating to those that have never shot one. I like the fact they have allowed the scopes but this just means better shot placement.

KennyC said:

I predict no change in the ML hunts. This isn't significant enough to warrant a large change. If a scope was what shifted everyone to specific hunts the there would not be any archery hunters. With the price of ML going up over the last several years I don't think everyone is going to rush out and buy one, plus they can be intimidating to those that have never shot one. I like the fact they have allowed the scopes but this just means better shot placement.

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I know 5 hunters that will be putting in for the ML hunts this coming year, and the main reason that they are doing so is because of the magnification of the scopes. Also what is so intimidating for those that have never shot one? All you have to do now is drop a couple of pellets down the barrel and ram a saboted bullet down the barrel, then place a 209 primer into the priming hole. No mess, no measuring, and no more worries about moisture.

Finally we can use our muzzy's for long range...500 to 1200 yards...hunting and shooting. I been checking out a new Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP for my muzzy. What you all think?

nothing to be done now. Just adapt I guess. I do know even though the hunting is better during colder months. A lot of people like that warmer earlier time for camping reasons and enjoying the fall colors. I think there will be quite a few that needed that little extra incentive with an awesome scope to make the switch. There are a lot worse things in life to worry about. I'm more upset about the process than anything.

I spoke with a guy Saturday he said he can shoot 300 yards and hit a deer without a scope so he is buying a scope so he can hit at 500 yards I just turned and walked away shaking my head.

The process was a joke.

I don't think some of you understand how much this can effect LE pools and max points req. Doesn't help rifle, and hurts ml.

Random......if it doesn't help rifle and hurts ml what does it help? I am not in favor of it regardless but it would seem to me that without changing the tags available as a whole, if it decreases the draw odds in one spot wouldn't it have to increase it in another?

RandomElk16 said:

The process was a joke.

I don't think some of you understand how much this can effect LE pools and max points req. Doesn't help rifle, and hurts ml.

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Should there have been more discussion? Probably.

To have a dramatic affect on LE pools the new applicants will have to come from somewhere. It won't be from the archery pool, which means that it will have improve rifle odds at least a little bit.

Looking at the odds for deer, I don't see much room for odds to worsen. Premium units require the same number of points to draw a rifle tag as an ML tag. Standard LE units have a difference of 1-2 points. If I'm 1 year away from drawing a rifle tag, I'm not going to switch over to ML for a scope.

It will be interesting to see what happens with elk units. Some do have a fairly sizable spread in points required between ML and early rifle hunts...people may switch; I guess we will soon find out. I can see a few guys switching from late hunts, which generally require about the same number of points, in order to be able to hunt the rut.

sagebrush said:

some of you really crack me up, with the new scope regs. i thought that obama and his lib army were bad. but the people around here are much worse.

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I had no freakin idea Obama was a hunter much less a muzzle load hunter in Utah....huh crazy thing.

RandomElk16 said:

The process was a joke.

I don't think some of you understand how much this can effect LE pools and max points req. Doesn't help rifle, and hurts ml.

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I won't defend the "process" (or lack thereof), but it is literally impossible for this to have a negative effect on the limited entry ML pool without helping the rifle. You can't apply for both here. If you're going to be switching TO one pool, you have to be coming FROM another. Dahlmer is spot on.