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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I find it really frustrating to hear and see all the false information floating around.
Starting with last year, all the talk that "baiting" of any type had been completely banned.
This is not true and a completely false statement but there are a lot of people that believe it to be true. I even got into it with an older fella at Sportsmans Warehouse last summer when I asked him at the store where they keep the big game supplements and trophy rocks. His answer was, "that stuff is now illegal to use and we don't sell it anymore, only cattlemen can use a salt block of any kind".
When I told him that he was mistaken and it is still legal when not hunting over it and the DWR also has says so. He still insisted that I will be fined if caught using bait at all.
I hate to think of all the hundreds of people he has told that to and then those people continue to spread the false info.

Now there's all this talk of trail cams also being banned, which again is not true. You can use them until July 31st to scout and if your not scouting or hunting the area, then they are still legal after July 31st.
Unfortunately, many boneheads out there will be taking the law into their own hands and feel the need to destroy other peoples property, which is really sad.

Then all this talk about taking scopes off muzzleloaders to "save the herds".
This will do nothing at all to increase the population of the deer herds.

So please check the facts, before believing all the crappy false statements going around.
 

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So Ridge, are you saying that I can actually go into the hills a couple weeks before a legal, designated hunt is going to take place, let's say starting in Oct, and I can hang 10 or 15 cameras around and all I got to say is "well officer, I ain't scountin and I ain't huntin" and you are free and clear of any possible prosecution?
Hum, how many you guys going to take this little bit of info and start hanging cameras a couple week before the hunt?
I ain't no lawyer, but maybe.
 

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You ever wonder if it has to do with the headline title of a post or news article?

For example, a headline could read "Trailcams Banned" or it could say "Trailcam Use Restricted After July 31." The first title is sorta true, but not completely. But someone reads the title and immediately forms an opinion or creates a narrative in their mind about that particular situation and then consider themselves informed.

Obviously this theory could span well outside the outdoors for every debatable topic in the world, but we will keep it within the realm of the outdoors for the sake of Forum Rules.

So the onus should be on those posting content to make a title that isnt salacious to drive clicks, but is brief and to the point and provides readers with the cliffs notes concept of what the post or article is about.

Maybe its my profession that makes me OCD about this, but the more concise and to the point we are, the less confusion can be inferred by the reader.

Reminds me of the old poem by Edward Hersey Richards:

“A wise old owl lived in an oak;
The more he saw the less he spoke;
The less he spoke the more he heard:
Why can't we all be like that bird?”


Rhetorical question: Perhaps we could speak less, and read more before we jump to conclusions? (which I am guilty of)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So Ridge, are you saying that I can actually go into the hills a couple weeks before a legal, designated hunt is going to take place, let's say starting in Oct, and I can hang 10 or 15 cameras around and all I got to say is "well officer, I ain't scountin and I ain't huntin" and you are free and clear of any possible prosecution?
Hum, how many you guys going to take this little bit of info and start hanging cameras a couple week before the hunt?
I ain't no lawyer, but maybe.
If the person is telling to truth, they have nothing to worry about concerning the law. If they're being dishonest, then there's a chance the law will catch up with them. If you know for a fact that someone is cheating and being dishonest, then please turn them in.
 

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Ok hypothetically speaking, let’s say I buy the OTC spot and stalk lion tag. Valid through the camera season closure dates. My only intent on one spring I know lions to frequent, is to place a camera on it to get an idea of lion patterns, if any. (Legal since lions aren’t considered big game). So i determine that a lion generally shows up every 4 days. I decide to sit there during the first week of the archery elk/deer season. A spike bull walks into the spring while I’m sitting there, based off my camera info that was set out for the only purpose of monitoring lions. I have an archery elk tag, so I shoot that spike. I had 1 picture in 3 weeks of this exact elk, but I didn’t sit there for intention of hunting elk.

Did i break the law?
 

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Maybe its my profession that makes me OCD about this, but the more concise and to the point we are, the less confusion can be inferred by the reader.

Reminds me of the old poem by Edward Hersey Richards:

“A wise old owl lived in an oak;
The more he saw the less he spoke;
The less he spoke the more he heard:
Why can't we all be like that bird?”


Rhetorical question: Perhaps we could speak less, and read more before we jump to conclusions? (which I am guilty of)
Kind of like it's better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok hypothetically speaking, let’s say I buy the OTC spot and stalk lion tag. Valid through the camera season closure dates. My only intent on one spring I know lions to frequent, is to place a camera on it to get an idea of lion patterns, if any. (Legal since lions aren’t considered big game). So i determine that a lion generally shows up every 4 days. I decide to sit there during the first week of the archery elk/deer season. A spike bull walks into the spring while I’m sitting there, based off my camera info that was set out for the only purpose of monitoring lions. I have an archery elk tag, so I shoot that spike. I had 1 picture in 3 weeks of this exact elk, but I didn’t sit there for intention of hunting elk.

Did i break the law?
I would think that you would be in trouble because you have an elk tag in your pocket and are hoping an elk or lion might come. Now if you left your elk tag home that day and was only after lions on that water, then it would be hard to prosecute.
 

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Covey admitted that when the WB makes policy on the fly it will need to be amended. I'm pretty sure there will be some clarifications coming down.

Most people are pretty selective about what they see and hear. In todays world they shoot from the hip. But hey, that is just my perspective.
 

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As hunters and outdoorsman we need to be ethical and do whats right. This means abiding by the laws of the land. With that being said, currently there is nothing illegal about scouting public land and using trail cams, as long as they do not aid in the harvest of big game.
 

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What percentage of big game hunters use trail cameras? I've used one, one time for scouting elk and once for a bear. That's been over 10 years ago and I thought it was a pain in the ars hiking into the location of the camera to pull the card. I don't have a dog in the fight, so, I dont care either way if its legal or not.
 

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I totally use camera's and have since 2009, I drew a big bull archery elk tag and killed my elk in an area where I never placed a camera. I place 8 cameras out. And last year I had elk come into the "elk locations" every single day during the week, Wednesdays seemed to be the most frequent day animals were active followed by Tuesday and Thursday. I have a theory on how active animals are that has nothing to do with camera's. When I start scouting I spend every single weekend on the mountains. Since using cameras I have shot 1-spike, 1-cow, 1-bull and 4 bucks - The cow, Bull and 1 buck were shot in areas I didn't have a camera. The other spots I had cameras but had watched animals frequent these areas prior to placing a camera, the camera placement only confirmed animals came into these areas as already suspected from paying attention. The spike I shot came in after calling, has cameras given me an unfair advantage? I don't believe so, I've put in the miles, I use sim card cameras, and since 2009 I have only taken a photo of one other hunter which was last year, that tells me I need to move to another area. So in 12 years of using a camera I have 1 photo of another hunter.
 

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Then all this talk about taking scopes off muzzleloaders to "save the herds".
This will do nothing at all to increase the population of the deer herds.

So please check the facts, before believing all the crappy false statements going around.
Ridge, I’ve actually found that the only people using the “save the herds” jargon are those that are trying to keep variable scopes on muzzleloaders. That is always the narrative, “It won’t save the herds like everyone thinks!”

Except those pushing for the change back to how it was only a handful of years ago and for the entire history before never say it’s for the herds. So I agree. Let’s stop with the fake news and have real discussions about what is going on! If only we could do that on all things…
 

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What percentage of big game hunters use trail cameras? I've used one, one time for scouting elk and once for a bear. That's been over 10 years ago and I thought it was a pain in the ars hiking into the location of the camera to pull the card. I don't have a dog in the fight, so, I dont care either way if its legal or not.
If I had to guess, probably 50% have or do use cameras.

cameras work. But they aren’t nearly as effective as many guys are trying to claim. I guess if you had 50+ they might give you a little more information about how animals use an area, but the 2-5 cams most guys use really aren’t very beneficial.

i won’t them any more now. So much changes between august 1 and the opener of the bowhunt, any summer info will be basically useless.
 

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Here's my .02...

I am a new hunter to Utah, born and raised here but all of my hunting was in Oregon before this year. I am also a trained wildlife biologist. Granted, in fisheries management but plenty of education on rangeland ecology, sampling etc... There simply isn't this sort of problem in Oregon and I think I know why.

If you pick up a free, over the counter regulation for any recent year in Oregon and compare it to Utah, it's a huge joke. In Oregon, each unit, for each animal is clearly defined, unit by unit. Any restriction for any unit or animal are completely covered. Boundaries are clearly listed. Often, the unit biologist contact information is listed and maps are available for each unit as well. In the regulation.

In Utah, it's a joke. The manual is half the size and half as thick. I ALWAYS have to call DNR for particulars about a unit. This one is spike only, for these 10 days and then closed unless draw unit... not in the reg anywhere, mind you.. Seasons overlap and aren't state wide. Hell, I still can't get the same answer FROM DNR if an archery hunter's choice tag includes cows or yearlings. I have a relative that manages to harvest 3 elk on one tag, legally and I can't find information about what tag that is or how to get it (haven't asked him, trying to do my due dilligence).

Add to this seasons that change every single year, boundaries and units that aren't mentioned in any publication and are not easily searchable and DNR staff that I've witnessed bicker amongst themselves over how to answer very direct questions that should be cut and dry...

Watching the management meetings is quite entertaining as well... beurocrats that outright ignore what the biologist recommends or completely misunderstand what they are telling them. Tabling topics only to never bring them back up and then completely changing thier stance to follow this guy or that guy who presents nothing as far as evidence or reason on their position... utterly insane. Let's make crazy regulations because they sound like they are helping the ecosystem and then auction tags to the highest bidder anyways... or better yet, let's just do what that guy said and not bring up a single common sense argument against it because politics... oh, and your time to comment on what we are discussing today was two weeks ago....

I won't lie, this state is frustrating beyond the max. I just got here and I'm seriously thinking about a move to Montana or Wyoming.

At least the people here are friendly and happy though hahaha.

Ok rant over.
 

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Wow your perception of the utah rules and regulations is exactly the same as mine when I look at the other states . Its very confusing until you figure it all out. I think utah has it pretty well spelled out if you read it all and use the hunt planner online if you need precise boundaries. It’s all there and really not that hard to understand . As far as the politics go well you know all you can do is try. No state is perfect not even your Oregon.
 

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I agree with 7mm. Utah happens to want you to use not only the guide books but their online resource to learn things that you don't know. You can pull up the boundaries for hunts and then zoom in on them to get the exact boundary.

I would like to see Utah combine their field regulation and application book into one again but since they don't send out copies of either it really doesn't make much difference. You just have to pick them up when you find them.
 
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