HH, you are correct. I haven't used a rangefinder to confirm ranges, so don't have hard evidence to support #4 steel for geese at 30 yards. Then again, I'm talking frontal or side shots on the wing, so don't have to go through folded wings before reaching the vitals. YMMV.
It's difficult to accept that #2 steel wouldn't afford clean kills ground swatting geese at 33 yards, though. It looks like #2 steel and HW13 #8s at MV= 1500FPS have equivalent gel penetration at 51 yards (1.33" vs 1.31"), while #4 steel penetrates 1.07" at 45 yards. I'm guessing #2s should kill cleanly to at least 45 yards, and 30 yards seems reasonable for 4s on frontal or quartering shots. I will likely never shoot a goose at 45 yards, so I think the Federal 3" 2s will be deadly for us.
I have killed a few geese out to 25 yards with #6 steel, but that's because the pattern density often yields hits to the head and neck, which folds them up right now.
All I know is that #4 steel kills the birds I shoot at if I do my job. And, because I'm not a great wing shot, I like shooting birds close. I'll try to pay closer attention to range next season. I'm not recommending anything to anybody, just reporting my own experiences. Toasty, geese that land in the spread either get a pass or are flushed, we don't ground swat them. I think your estimates are too conservative.
You may have posted the information before, but it would be interesting to see ballistics on the stuff you're shooting including pellet count, gel penetration, etc.
I guess I was tying as you were posting:mrgreen::mrgreen:
There is no doubt that steel 4's will kill birds all day long that are in range and have been my go to duck load the last two years with the 28. Of course for geese.....unless the bird is under 15 yards I wouldn't dare take the shot as I just don't trust those little light pellets getting through the body into vitals and I also don't trust myself putting the load on the head if they are in flight.
Geese on the ground, not my first choice as I like shooting birds in the air but as I was saying in my examples, I had no choice due to the situation where I was hunting, it was a ground/turkey shoot or nothing.
Steel 6's, yes they'll kill geese and kill them well with a head shot just as 7 shot will (I carry those for a finisher due to high pellet counts for head shooting cripples) but what about when you miss the head or neck?
Paddler I use 2.5" of penetration to assure a pellet will make it in to the vitals on a goose. Like you said a frontal or side shot with wings open require less penetration and more exposure to vitals and head (by the way the area of head and neck on a goose is similar to the entire area of green wing teal) but what about when you jump the birds out of the blocks and they are going straight away from you or you take the first shot as a side shot but then they turn to bug out and you shoot them going away exposing less head and neck and require deeper penetration to get to the lungs, heart etc..??
Using KPY, 7/8 oz of hw13 4 shot has pellet count of 100 and moving them at 1450 fps they will get you 2.5" of penetration to 63.5 yards at 1000" and 32 degrees.
Steel 2 shot at 1500 fps 1 1/4 oz load has 155 pellets but will only penetrate to 2.50" at 20 yards:shock:
Using the KPY calculator to get gel penetration to the 33 yards where the goose was shot in the first example you get 1.99" of penetration. Kind of fits/matches the results I seen on that bird after those pellets went through a wing a bit of breast and then into the lungs on that bird. Once again it was not an ideal shot and as a head shot would have been better and it did ultimately get the job done.
Steel 4 shot in a common 7/8 oz 20 gauge load (kents for example) 1550 fps........14 yards for 2.5" of penetration.
Now I will admit that 2.5" is a lot and more realistically 2.25 would be a good gauge for shot penetration, but I prefer to go with a little more just to make sure that if my range estimation is off, the load I choose still do the job:grin:
Last can your load of 2's pattern like this at 50 yards???:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:
Of course for turkey shooting them in the head on the ground this works better LOL
Paddler I think you a good guy and I know you have the utmost respect for the birds you hunt. As in politics though I just have a different perception on how and why things work then you do;-)