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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am sure that someone has brought this up before, why do we not have a extended archery in Utah county? There is need just go up around Alpine, Elk ridge, Salem, Orem these places are loaded with deer.
 

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And they are nice to boot. I have a brother that owns some real estate properties in orem/provo and there are constanly big deer coming down into these areas.
 

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That would be the best thing ever. I personally haven't even put a dent in what is available to me on the current extended, but I know that there are some spots that if made available to me, I would free up some time for them. AF canyon has some awesome spots that in the late sewason would be amazing.

Good idea slope, its got my vote.
 

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UBA has been working on this for a while now. There are many obstacles to this that must be overcome in order to get the Front 'extended' south. I personally would like to see it go all the way to SR 6.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
proutdoors said:
UBA has been working on this for a while now. There are many obstacles to this that must be overcome in order to get the Front 'extended' south. I personally would like to see it go all the way to SR 6.

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I knew you would be on top of this! I would get involved in this.
 

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I would get involved in this.
I'll let you know when the next UBA meeting is, so you can help out. I believe we will be having a meeting in December, just not sure of the date. I'll find out and get back with you.

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Count me in!

There is no reason not to bring the extended archery to Utah County and even Wasatch and Summit Counties for that matter. Why not state wide? I would even pay an additional fee which is what the DWR seems to care about the most.

I love the extended season! Please make this happen.

Let me know if I can help.
 

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I like to hunt the mountains here in the regular season and don't need the deer pursued all year round. There is also sufficient winter range that they don't need the culling around Timp or the Alpine areas like other places in SLC do.

Nope on the extended is my vote. Statewide? Are you kidding me? Get off your sorry arses and get a deer in the other seasons when they are harder to hunt.

:D
 

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The comments made by folks like SteepnDeep and Packout(AKA chucknduck) are the main obstacles I mentioned earlier. If ignorance is bliss, these two most be completely 'blissed'. :?

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I would love to see this extend to all of Summit County. One thing I know for sure is when I have a rifle in my hand one deer is going to die in summit county. When I have bow one might not die for several years, bow hunting can be a huge management tool for growing mature mule deer. Count me in..
 

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Seems to me that if you're really working for a Utah county extended, it makes more sense to educate or at least make a case than it does to insult.

There's a sound management rationale behind the extended hunts and that rationale applies to the Wasatch face through Utah county all the way to Spanish Fork canyon.

The extended hunt has proven to be an effective means of controlling the deer and elk populations in areas that are too close to population centers to allow gun hunts. It has very little to do with revenue, giving extra perks to bowhunters or accommodating poor or lazy hunters. Further, bowhunting has the additional benefit of controlling rather than killing since the boundaries create a situation in which bowhunters tend to herd the animals. The benefit of that is a minimal impact on herd numbers in the adjacent units.

I'm all for a Utah county extended season, but I'd strongly oppose a statewide extended season because there's no management justification for it.
 

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A close personal friend of mine is one of the biologists that you'd have to convince if you were to extend the archery hunt into Utah county.......and here's what he told me:

First, there is no managerial reason for the extended hunt in Utah county. Taking more animals out of the herd in an area where they often struggle to meet management objectives doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Second, it is feared that extending the hunt into Utah county would take too much pressure off of the Salt Lake county deer herd where the extended archery hunt is needed to keep the deer population in check because of the lack of rifle hunting. Most hunters tend to gravitate towards the easiest areas to hunt and given the choice between the steep faces above Sandy, or the foothills above Alpine and you know where most of the pressure is going to be.

Extending the hunt into Utah county has been presented before and it's not something that has gained a whole lot of support within the Division. Both the Salt Lake and Springville offices have resisted the idea in the past and there is little reason to think circumstances have significantly changed. Sometimes management decisions are based on what best benefits the herd and not on what best benefits the hunters.
 

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Kevin, now you have done it. Get ready to be called names for because of your opinion. :) I have had the same discussions with area biologists and they have told me the same thing you posted.

This issue has come up before and here was what came out of it:
-The Utah County herds have sufficient winter range, as Steep said and we were called "ignorant" for.
-The herd is below objective.
-Much of the accessible grounds are designated as winter range (why push the deer from where they want them) or private, which can not/should not be accessed.
-The herd receives heavy archery, rifle and muzzleloader pressure and the buck : doe ratios are not above objective.
-For the most part, the problem deer live within city limits, where no hunting is allowed.
-Utah County receives less snow (on average) than Salt Lake, Davis, or Weber Counties and the deer don't seem (usually) to come down into the cities as occurrs on the Extended. No real "Lake Effect" snows, if you will.

We (Yes I hunt the Front) almost lost the Extended because of the problems associated with the hunt. Thanks to Clint, Bill, Travis, etc (even a Chuck-And-Ducker like me, haha) who fought to keep it, we still have this hunt, but is always under constant scrutiny. Lets fight to maintain what we have.

Pro- I don't sit on my butt all day at a computer, ready to repost, argue, and beat a dead horse. Call me all the names you want, it just shows the people with Class (ie Finnegan) how Class-less you can be. Let's see what other Junior High name you can come up with for me.
 

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Kevin D said:
A close personal friend of mine is one of the biologists that you'd have to convince if you were to extend the archery hunt into Utah county.......and here's what he told me:

First, there is no managerial reason for the extended hunt in Utah county. Taking more animals out of the herd in an area where they often struggle to meet management objectives doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Second, it is feared that extending the hunt into Utah county would take too much pressure off of the Salt Lake county deer herd where the extended archery hunt is needed to keep the deer population in check because of the lack of rifle hunting. Most hunters tend to gravitate towards the easiest areas to hunt and given the choice between the steep faces above Sandy, or the foothills above Alpine and you know where most of the pressure is going to be.

Extending the hunt into Utah county has been presented before and it's not something that has gained a whole lot of support within the Division. Both the Salt Lake and Springville offices have resisted the idea in the past and there is little reason to think circumstances have significantly changed. Sometimes management decisions are based on what best benefits the herd and not on what best benefits the hunters.
+1 Makes sense to me.
 

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Good post, Packout. However, I think there's more to the story.

Packout said:
-The Utah County herds have sufficient winter range, as Steep said and we were called "ignorant" for.
-The herd is below objective.
Correct. However, it's also true that conflicts between big game and landowners are common and well known in the area, especially around Alpine. These conflicts often result in the deaths of the animals. I submit that an extended archery hunt would reduce those incidental deaths while not resulting in a negligable harvest rate. So it comes down to a matter of which is preferred - toss those road kills into the landfill or allow hunters to harvest those animals for consumption.

Packout said:
-Much of the accessible grounds are designated as winter range (why push the deer from where they want them) or private, which can not/should not be accessed.
The same is true of the Wasatch. But the key would be the boundary descriptions which admittedly, would have to vary from the Wasatch model. Also remember that the range situation is in rapid flux. For example, the Wasatch extended boundary originally ended at Corner Canyon to preserve the winter range directly to the south and southwest. However, that winter range is quickly disappearing due to continuing development. The best way to move animals to remaining range and establish a necessary buffer between wildlife and human development is the calculated use of bowhunting.

This raises a related point. All indications from county and city sources are that development will continue at least for the foreseeable future. Therefore, if something isn't done to preserve some winter range, herd objectives can't possibly be met - not at numbers sufficient for a viable herd. That's the real problem.

Packout said:
-The herd receives heavy archery, rifle and muzzleloader pressure and the buck : doe ratios are not above objective.
Correct again. But that hunting pressure is only for a short time and the harvest rate in the area we're talking about (adjacent to population) is very low. As for buck:doe ratios, the DWR is up in the night with those numbers since the Wasatch provides ample evidence of isolated segregation at the time of the counts. What you see depends on what direction you look.

Packout said:
-For the most part, the problem deer live within city limits, where no hunting is allowed.
I'd be interested to see some hard data to prove this. My bet is that the resident deer are very few. The bulk of the deer living within city limits are seasonal migrants. Of course, I've got no data to support my view, either. And as for elk, well, there are no resident elk in city limits, are there?

Packout said:
-Utah County receives less snow (on average) than Salt Lake, Davis, or Weber Counties and the deer don't seem (usually) to come down into the cities as occurrs on the Extended. No real "Lake Effect" snows, if you will.
If that's true, (and I'm not so sure it is), average is a human concept and isn't relevant since a single year of heavy snowfall or light snowfall can have a dramatic effect on deer populations.

Packout said:
We (Yes I hunt the Front) almost lost the Extended because of the problems associated with the hunt. Thanks to Clint, Bill, Travis, etc (even a Chuck-And-Ducker like me, haha) who fought to keep it, we still have this hunt, but is always under constant scrutiny. Lets fight to maintain what we have.
I completely agree - not only because it offers a great hunting opportunity, but more importantly because it's good for wildlife. I think we have to focus on the extended hunt as a management tool because if it's just another opportunity for hunters, it will not stand up against public sentiment, particularly if isolated incidents of hunter misbehavior are thrown into the objections.

If the Wasatch extended is sound management practice, as I believe it is, then similar practice is justified elsewhere where similar conditions exist.
 

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they did for elk 2 and 3 years ago.

problem tons of private property. probably 90% private or in city limits.

and one particular elk heard 7 bulls. ranging from small rags to a VERY nice bull 380+.
the problem started in salem. it ended at the SF air port. over 40 tresspass tickets and shooting in city limit tickets were issued.
the elk were also pushed over i-15 at rush hour. with bow hunters on foot right behind them.

the large bull ended up getting stuck and it died 10 feet from i -15. funny thing though, the story made the cover of a very popular hunting mag. all about utah winter bow hunting. :roll:

it was a MESS. so the DWR has removed it from the extended unit.
and its a good thing. i'd be against it. even though it would greatly benefit me.
 

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Having lived in Utah county for many year's. I can see how this could be a great tool. I have seen many deer hung up on fences and chased by dogs in Alpine/Highland, Pleasant Grove and Lindon/Orem and now Springville is starting to have a problem with deer.

After moving to Payson for a few years, I was able to watch the elk fiascal. The problem happened every year, it would have been a easy fix by simple change the boundary.
 
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