[Vanilla]

I have seen the percentage of budget that nonresidents bring to Wyoming and Colorado. Those states and their resident hunters would be wise to tread lightly.

I have never seen those numbers for Utah. I can’t imagine we have even close to the amount of the DWR budget made up by nonresidents as those two states do.

And for our great cakeeater to the far north, I’m guessing Alaska is insanely lopsided as well. I’m guessing they get more from non-resident anglers in a year than they do from residents in a decade just in license fees, not counting the impact on local economies that are essentially built around vacationing lower-48ers.

Utah might get a huge impact from nonresidents as well, I’ve just never seen those numbers posted anywhere.

 

[johnnycake]

I have seen the percentage of budget that nonresidents bring to Wyoming and Colorado. Those states and their resident hunters would be wise to tread lightly.

I have never seen those numbers for Utah. I can’t imagine we have even close to the amount of the DWR budget made up by nonresidents as those two states do.

And for our great cakeeater to the far north, I’m guessing Alaska is insanely lopsided as well. I’m guessing they get more from non-resident anglers in a year than they do from residents in a decade just in license fees, not counting the impact on local economies that are essentially built around vacationing lower-48ers.

Utah might get a huge impact from nonresidents as well, I’ve just never seen those numbers posted anywhere.

You are absolutely correct about Alaska revenue from NRs dwarfing revenue from Rs. But that is largely because the vast majority of resident hunting permits/tags cost us $0. The only tags that cost money for residents are muskox ($500 bull, $25 cow -- subsistence tags are free for qualified participants) and a $25 brown bear locking tag in certain units. For the record, I think all of that is straight up bonkers.

On the hunting side of the numbers, it's been a while since I actually ran the data, but it used to be that charging residents ~$5 per tag/harvest ticket would completely replace NR tag revenue (assuming the # of R tags/tickets purchased didn't change).

Statewide in 2023 there were:
3,898 NR moose hunters.
251 NR sheep hunters
346 NR goat hunters
28 NR elk hunters
10 NR bison
1 NR Muskox

Caribou, black bear, and blacktail general season harvest ticket numbers don't get published online the same way to see NR vs R and it's been too long since I saw a report with that info for my recollection to be reliable. Roughly 90% of brown bears are killed by NRs with about 1,000/yr total hunters reporting having hunted brown bears and ~700 killed in 2023.

2023 had 19,338 NR AK hunting licenses sold (345,925 NR fishing licenses). Residents bought 83,157 hunting and 154,432 fishing licenses; this doesn't include the fairly large number of folks exempt from needing a license due to age or poverty (about 10% of the state qualifies, mostly in rural bush communities where subsistence hunting and fishing is very much a necessity).

Roughly 20,000 residents reported moose hunting in 2023. Submitting harvest ticket reports is only required if you want to apply in the next year's draw, but IIRC fewer than 50% report.

Black bears and blacktail deer by numbers are the most popular game animals killed in the state. Caribou I think comes in 3rd with residents killing the vast majority of them, particularly in subsistence communities.

 

[Vanilla]

I guess all I have to say is....

 

[MWScott72]

In addition to what caddis8 said, if you as a Utah resident ever hunt in other states, tit for tat is a real biotch.

What Johnny said!!!

 

[Critter]

But what fun is it in just hunting your own home state?

I started hunting Colorado as my second state before moving here, then started to hunt in Arizona and Wyoming. Branched out to Nevada and Idaho, and then came Kansas. British Colombia and South Africa are my two foreign countries that I have hunted, and in all of them I didn't even bat a eyelash when I had to fork over what the tags cost. I did cough up some blood on my British Colombia bear hunt but if you want o play you have to pay.

It will be interesting when the final count comes in here in Colorado on non resident archery elk tags. I haven't even looked at the number that is allowed but I'm betting that all of them will be sold.

 

[middlefork]

From 2024 Draw odds report . NR

GS Buck 8768 apps 3962 tags@ $418. Tags=$1,656,116
LE Deer 17239 apps 128 tags@ $670. Tags= $85,760
LE Elk 19722 apps 324 tags@ $1050. Tags= $340,200
LE Pronghorn 6626 apps 154 tags@ $371. Tags= $57,134
Bison 8443 apps 15 tags@ $2420. Tags= $36,300
DBS 12707 apps 5 tags@ $2244. Tags= $11,220
MTN Goat 9153 apps 7 tags@ $2244. Tags = $15,708
Bull Moose 9882 apps 9 tags@ $2244. Tags = $20,196
92,540 apps x $10.00= $1,017,940
Figure roughly 20,000 hunting licenses because nobody knows they can get 2 years out of one @ $120.00 = $2,400,000

I couldn't find any info on GS Elk.

 

[MWScott72]

With the numbers presented by Middlefork, it would seem that Utah’s bread is buttered by GS deer permits and the associated hunting license and app fee required to apply. I’m disappointed to pay $600 ANYWHERE for a deer, but honestly, for the person who really wants to hunt UT deer, that’s still doable IMO. What happens though when the DWR wants to jack it to $800 or $1K? How many high rollers are going to drop that money for a GS tag? I would argue only a fraction. For the average hunter though, those prices get to be a bit outrageous, and I would guess many will drop out.

Who knows where the actual breaking point is, but if I had to guess, it’s in the next 10-15 years. Definitely within 20.

 

[caddis8]

From 2024 Draw odds report . NR

GS Buck 8768 apps 3962 tags@ $418. Tags=$1,656,116
LE Deer 17239 apps 128 tags@ $670. Tags= $85,760
LE Elk 19722 apps 324 tags@ $1050. Tags= $340,200
LE Pronghorn 6626 apps 154 tags@ $371. Tags= $57,134
Bison 8443 apps 15 tags@ $2420. Tags= $36,300
DBS 12707 apps 5 tags@ $2244. Tags= $11,220
MTN Goat 9153 apps 7 tags@ $2244. Tags = $15,708
Bull Moose 9882 apps 9 tags@ $2244. Tags = $20,196
92,540 apps x $10.00= $1,017,940
Figure roughly 20,000 hunting licenses because nobody knows they can get 2 years out of one @ $120.00 = $2,400,000

I couldn't find any info on GS Elk.

Do you know if CWMU data is included in those numbers? I don't know how it is handled or reported. I went on several NR anterless elk hunts when working for Cabela's south of Evanston on a CWMU (it was private with the landowner) but they had a bunch of CWMU hunters on the unit during the bull hunt. Had a few deer and a couple whopper CWMU moose.

 

[middlefork]

I don't think it is. NR can't draw a CWMU so they aren't included in the draw odds that I pulled the numbers from.
You would have to go through the tag allocations for the CWMU's and they aren't split by R/NR so it wouldn't be particularly accurate. Not all private tags on CWMU's are purchased by NR.

 

[Airborne]

https://www.ksl.com/article/51286438/utah-raises-prices-for-fishing-hunting-and-other-fees-for-nonresidents-

 

[caddis8]

I don't think it is. NR can't draw a CWMU so they aren't included in the draw odds that I pulled the numbers from.
You would have to go through the tag allocations for the CWMU's and they aren't split by R/NR so it wouldn't be particularly accurate. Not all private tags on CWMU's are purchased by NR.

That makes sense. So how are the CWMU tag allocations accounted for in those numbers, if at all? I know I had tags in my name from the ranch as depredation cow tags if I'm not mistaken. This isn't a state issue, but can outfitters/ranches/CWMU profit from a tag? Say they get a depredation allotment, can they sell the bull tag for $1,000?

 

[middlefork]

Any CWMU tag that isn't in the draw is allocated by the specie quotas determined by the WB. CWMU's can certainly profit from selling access to the tags. The hunter gets a voucher that is redeemed by the DWR. The operator can pocket anything more for access.
Other private not enrolled in the CWMU program is basically selling trespass fees. The depredation tags are different I think but could be wrong.

 

[Vanilla]

Say they get a depredation allotment, can they sell the bull tag for $1,000?

Yes. And many of them do. I know of a property that used to sell cow vouchers they got from depredation for $400. You’d then take that voucher to the closest DWR office and purchase the $60 (or whatever the cost is right around there) antlerless elk permit for that property.

Depredation doesn’t always work that way, but the depredation vouchers landowners receive can be sold for whatever cost they want. The DWR only gets their cut in the form of the actual permit fee the voucher is exchanged for.

CWMUs are similar. Anything not in the state draw can be sold for whatever price they want, but the person still has to purchase the actual permit from the state at the allotted price.

 

[caddis8]

Yes. And many of them do. I know of a property that used to sell cow vouchers they got from depredation for $400. You’d then take that voucher to the closest DWR office and purchase the $60 (or whatever the cost is right around there) antlerless elk permit for that property.

Depredation doesn’t always work that way, but the depredation vouchers landowners receive can be sold for whatever cost they want. The DWR only gets their cut in the form of the actual permit fee the voucher is exchanged for.

CWMUs are similar. Anything not in the state draw can be sold for whatever price they want, but the person still has to purchase the actual permit from the state at the allotted price.

Ok, that makes sense. I'm trying to wrap my head around where those tags are accounted for in the dollars. Did that just double too? At the end of the day, this is a big money grab and a potential bigger money grab. It may or may not be justified, and the state has its reasons for it. If it will actually go to purchasing land for access, I have no problems for it. Investing in additional investigative staff, again, no issue. Actual resources. Sure. Funnelling money to "conservation" organizations and furthering big money interest- ehh. Bidets on every F&G toilet, triple my fees, and I won't blink. Triple my license fees.

 

[middlefork]

The number of permits are determined by the regional biologist and each individual CWMU.
The price of the permit is paid to the DWR and incorporated into the same fund as all the other permit fees.
You can spend the time to see how many permits are offered by species to each CWMU if you are really interested.
The permit fees would not show up in the example I posted above of the draw permits.
I don't think the NR permit fees go into a reserved account separate from resident fees.

 

[caddis8]

The number of permits are determined by the regional biologist and each individual CWMU.
The price of the permit is paid to the DWR and incorporated into the same fund as all the other permit fees.
You can spend the time to see how many permits are offered by species to each CWMU if you are really interested.
The permit fees would not show up in the example I posted above of the draw permits.
I don't think the NR permit fees go into a reserved account separate from resident fees.

Thanks. That helps. What I couldn't figure out (without looking hard) was if the CWMU and depredation was a separate pool aside from state permit quotas.

 

[Critter]

I just received a Email from the Utah DWR telling me that there will be no increased fees this year.

How nice of them to let me know.

 

[Vanilla]

Was there ever a question on if they applied to this year?

Thought that was pretty clear that the allowed fee increase went into effect July 1.

 

[Critter]

I knew that pretty much everything will happen next year. But there has been a lot of fear mongering on social media about the 100% increase for tags.

I just thought that it was interesting in that the DWR would send out a email about it with a invitation to apply for a hunt this year. They didn't send the email out on the last increase.

I posted the email since I doubt that they sent it to resident applicants.

 

[Vanilla]

Gotcha. Yes, there has been an awful lot of weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth on this all over, and very little of it has been actually true to what was going to happen and what has happened.

Heaven forbid anyone that is taking the time to go online and rant about this would take the time to actually understand it first...

You are correct, Critter. I did not get that email as a resident.