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I have been reading the topic about CWMU and public land disputes. I did not want to hijack that thred so i started this one. I'm not an experinced hunter mostly a fisherman. I'm interested in hunting and read a lot of post on this web site. My question is What is CWMU and why do we have it? From my limited understand, the CWMU is private land where people can get legal tags to hunt for a price. But by law the land owners have to allow a small number of regular hunters to hunt the land also as part of the deal. But from the posts I have read it seems that money talks and the the common man is getting the shaft. It sounds like more and more "public" land is being absorbed by the CWMU operations. So what is the up side, unless your a CWMU owner? Why does the DWR support this program? :?:
 

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"Cooporative Wildlife Mangament Unit".
These are private ranches within a region that have huntable numbers of wildlife on them.
The state issues a certain number of tags to the owner, in lieu that landowner has to allow so many public hunters through the draw system to access the lands for hunting.
Most are really good properties to hunt! :D
 

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The upside of the CWMU program is that it allows for more big game habitat and less development. The owners that enroll in the program allow the DWR to manage the game on the land and they agree to not devlop the land. You can find out all the info at this site:
http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org

Basically the CWMU program is a way for Greedy rich land owners to sell hunting permits for 100 times more than they are worth, and screw over the public hunters that wait 5-10 years to draw a great tag. Just my opinion :D
 

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HJB said:
The upside of the CWMU program is that it allows for more big game habitat and less development. The owners that enroll in the program allow the DWR to manage the game on the land and they agree to not devlop the land. You can find out all the info at this site:
http://www.cwmuutahwildlife.org

Basically the CWMU program is a way for Greedy rich land owners to sell hunting permits for 100 times more than they are worth, and screw over the public hunters that wait 5-10 years to draw a great tag. Just my opinion :D
And without the CWMU program they would still sell permits for 100 times more than they are worth and poor public hunters would never have a chance to hunt the property. I don't understand your reasoning of how they screw over public hunter that have waited 5-10 years for a great tag. If you are putting in for any tag for that long I would think you would know what's going on in the unit you apply.

Feel free to enlighten me. :)
 

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Go to the search engine and type in "CWMU", you will find countless experiences of people who have been totally screwed over by CWMU owners. Many people like myself research these prime hunting lands and contact the owners for info. Most of the operators are very helpful until you actually draw the tag. The public pays $40 for a tag that usually costs $5000 or more. The operators are not about to let some public guy with a $40 tag in his pocket get to where the big bucks are. They know the bigger the buck the bigger the price tag and tip, so why let some public weener shoot the bigguns???
It's all a big business, and the owners want the money. Letting a big buck go for free, is pretty hard for them to watch. That's why the CWMU program sucks. They get everbodys hopes up and then shoot them down when they draw the tag.
There are very few CWMUs that treat the public decently and provide the same hunt as a paying customer. That's why I have no respect for the program. There isn't alot of research you can do other than trust a guy you have never met to give you your dream hunt. You don't get to scout, most the time you don't even get to see the property until your hunt. All the paying clients get to hunt first, and in some cases areas are shut down to the public hunters.
Like I said, it's a business
Never compare a CWMU to a LE! They are nothing alike!
 

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Yes, I have read alot of bad experiences at CWMU's, I wonder if anyone has any good experiences?

I see it a little different. The land is not available to the average joe without the CWMU, where when it is in a CWMU "some" average joe's do get to hunt the land.

The rule say that the public draw has to have the same opportunity to hunt as the private tags. This is somewhat vague and only means they can hunt the same area and the same number of days. The landowner can restrict travel to foot only and can set the days that the public can hunt. They don't have to give you time to scout though some do. So if a private tag is for 5 days the public get 5 days, but the landowner can say what days. I would think that a CWMU hunt would be iffy but if you have the time and the stamina I think some of them could be a great hunt.

I think if the CWMU operators are not following the rules that they should be shut down.

It must not be real bad because it seems the tags always sell, but I guess that they could all be ignorant of the situation. I would like to know anyone who has hunted a CWMU and still puts in for the same one again.

I still have a problem with public land being absorbed into a CWMU.
 

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like the ole say to each there own. i have hunted a couple of cwmu s deseret for elk , deer
and antelope and was very pleased especially on the buck an bull hunts we participated in
i cannot think of a unit that try s harder to get you your animals than that cwmu and if by
chanch you dont like hunting from a vehicle on the late hunts than by all means dont put in
for it. the last time i checked there was no b/c recordes for antlerless animals its a MEAT hunt and there tring to reduce number to keep in line with the herd objective numbers
 

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I do agree that most CWMUs offer great hunts for antlerless game. There is no competition and it's all public guys that get to do it. So for the kids and meat hunters, the CWMUs can really be fun. In some cases, the antlered game hunts can be very sucessful as well. Yes, Deseret is one of the few very accomodating CWMUs. But for the most part I think it's a business that doesn't like giving away free tags and accomodating people that don't pay them anything.
 

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Under the old system HJB may have been somewhat correct, but under the new version of the CWMU program will be more equitable.

Public hunters now know, BEFORE the apply, what the hunt dates are. Satisfaction rates. Many have age data. Public hunters must receive a minimum of 5 days to hunt antlered game and 2 days to hunt antlerless. Public hunters must be allowed to hunt the entire CWMU (unless the CWMU has a designated rest area which no hunter is allowed to hunt). Public hunters recieved over 20 or so more bull moose permits over a 3 year period.

Public hunters should always-- Report CWMUs problems. Report CWMU positives.

I also want to address one topic HJB brought up "Greedy rich land owners". While some CWMUs are owned by wealthy people, many are owned by long-time ranch families. These are people that may seem rich, but many are dirt rich and cash poor. CWMUs allow these ranchers to recieve a benefit from the game animals which inhabit their property. By seeing a value in wildlife, CWMUs do not get compensation from depredating animals, and the grow more animals than they would have without the CWMU.
 

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Good post Packout...good to see someone with some REAL insight post up on the CWMU. Thanks.
 

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Good post Packout...good to see someone with some REAL insight post up on the CWMU. Thanks.
+1 Good explination by Packout. It has been a few years since our property was involved with a CWMU and the rules have become better it seems.

FWIW.... When our property was involved with a CWMU, if the public draw contacted me I would personally take them up before the hunt, show them where some wallows were and the canyons that usually held elk. We wanted them to get big elk because the word of mouth was the best advertising and would increase the value of the private permits.
 

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I think the thing most CWMU operators wanted was the longer hunting seasons they get(3-4 months). You can only pack so many hunters onto an area when the season is only 10 days or so long...so...they lobbied and get a longer season...maybe you could call them longer business hours... which allowed them to sell many more tags and meet their clients desires better. Basically, the longer season made the private hunting club possible in Utah. I have mixed feeling about CWMU's but I guess they are alright because many ranchers that at one time killed elk on sight now see them as an asset and are starting to manage their property to accommodate wildlife. The new rules about how the "public hunter" is treated are great and with help to make the CWMU's more acceptable to most hunters.
 

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because many ranchers that at one time killed elk on sight now see them as an asset and are starting to manage their property to accommodate wildlife.
Good point, also all the animals don't stay on the CWMU the entire time so the better they are managed the better for the whole unit.
 

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Are CWMUs incorporated into the Teaming With Wildlife program?
 

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I have a hard time believing that someone who owns piece of land worth over $10 million and charges $10,000 to hunt a animal is "Poor". Come on now, you expect me to feel sorry for the poor land owners in the CWMU program???
Sorry buddy, but those guys are far from "Poor", and they are most definitley "Greedy".
The main goal for the CWMU program is to "Provide the public with the same opprotunities as the private clients". To achive this they planned a goal of "Balancing the split ratios".
Do you know what the current split ratios are for elk and deer??? 90% Private party - 10% Public
Looks like the goal was never met and probably never will be met, and why you ask??? Because who wants to give away tags worth $10,000 for $45??? That's called greed sir.
 

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Are you serious? HJB, you really don't have a clue about what you are talking about? Some people will never be happy unless they are complaining and I am sure your fit in that category. The facts mean nothing to you so there is not much point in having this discussion. However, 90+% of the state is NOT a CWMU. Enjoy!
 

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:lol: I don't understand???
Apparently you don't know what a "Split Ratio" is? It's not the private land vs the Public land. It's the amount of private TAGS vs Public TAGS. The private gets 90% of the tags issued and the public gets 10%. So far Deseret is the only CWMU to accomodate the public on Split Ratios.
I have done extensive research and attended several meetings on the CWMU topic, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm taking about. You can argue with me all you want, but I have presented the facts. That's all there is to it.
If you want to find out what a "Split Ratio" is and what the goals are, go to the website and read up on it.
 

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Out of the two of us I am the only one that does understand. There are small amounts of public land incorporated into SOME the CWMU's...so what, now you feel entitled? These are PRIVATE lands. You apparently feel entitled to a larger ratio of the "split ratios". Why should anybody give you something that isn't yours? If you want to hunt a CWMU either buy a tag, or put in for one in the draw. If not hunt the other 98% of that state that isn't CWMU.

Before this program these were lands that had zero access to public hunters not willing or able to pay for access. The way I see it the CWMU program has given many more opportunities to "average" hunters. Opportunities that were never there before. Opportunities to hunt LE quality animals without waiting half a lifetime to draw...so what's the problem? :roll:
 

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The problem is them saying one thing and doing another. If they are going to treat the public like crap and give them crappy hunts, they shouldn't have enrolled in the program in the first place, but they are greedy so they had to.
If all CWMUs were run like Deseret, I wouldn't complain one bit. You and I both know that they are not run like Deseret. I have had many bad experiences and know of many others.
I hope this year will turn it all around, like Packout said. But for some reason, I'm not so sure it will change.
Yes, we are lucky to have additional opprotunities, but if they don't benefit us and just cause problems for the public, then there's not much to get excited about. I want to support the program, but it does not have a history of pleasing the public as it should.
I have had this aurgument way too many times, and yes I have complained way too much and nothing has changed. So I'm done with this thing. You win :roll:
 

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I don't know about winning...but, yes I am sure there are some poorly managed units out there. I don't know EVERY CWMU operator out there but my gut feeling is this is the exception rather than the rule. If you have a bad experience don't hunt there again and put in a formal complaint. I am sure the program isn't perfect but a work in progress. Good luck on your hunts this year.
 
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