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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone tell me why in the points reports for the antlerless draw it often seems that some permits will "fall through" to a lower point group?

Just for example, in Hunt 2000, Box Elder, West Bear River (see picture), only 7 permits rather than all remaining 14 are awarded among the 42 applicants with 1 preference point. The other 7 permits are awarded to applicants with 0 points.
 

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A search will turn up a lot of threads explaining this...but I'm gonna try to do it.

50% of all tags in any area are set aside to be drawn on by people with points.

The remaining are put in a separate draw that is open to any and all remaining applicants.

So, you will occasionally (quite often actually) see someone with 0 or 1 point draw before someone with more points than that. Each "Point" basically buys you one entry into the draw, more points the better your odds, but never guaranteed.

This is one of the few forms of gambling that is legal in Utah. ;)

I asked the same question not too long ago in this thread... http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/75369-draw-odds-fluctuations-explained.html
 

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Kinekilla... you described the methodology for the bonus point drawing not the preference point drawing. Bonus points are used for limited entry & OIAL while preference points are used for general deer & antlerless.

The preference point system is designed to give those with the highest number of points preference over those that have fewer (hence the name preference point). Tags are awarded to those with the highest points until all the tags are gone... no 50:50 split, no lottery, just plain old if you have the most points you get the tag.

The tags that seem to "fall through" are the 20% that are reserved for youth. The 7 successful applicants for the unit referenced would have been the youth. I do not know of a percentage set aside for seniors in the antlerless draw, however there are some considerations made with management hunts for seniors.
 

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A search will turn up a lot of threads explaining this...but I'm gonna try to do it.

50% of all tags in any area are set aside to be drawn on by people with points.

The remaining are put in a separate draw that is open to any and all remaining applicants.

So, you will occasionally (quite often actually) see someone with 0 or 1 point draw before someone with more points than that. Each "Point" basically buys you one entry into the draw, more points the better your odds, but never guaranteed.

This is one of the few forms of gambling that is legal in Utah. ;)

I asked the same question not too long ago in this thread... http://utahwildlife.net/forum/12-big-game/75369-draw-odds-fluctuations-explained.html
What you are describing is a bonus point draw, as is what is used for LE and OIL draws. The draw in question is for a preference point draw. These are used for antlerless and general deer draws. These do not operate that way. In these all the highest preference point applicants draw out first, then on down the line.

To answer the original question, the first thing that comes to mind would be group applicants like a guy with 3 points puts in with someone with zero and draws out. The points for the group app will actually be 1 1 /2 (3+0/2) but the zero guy would show up on the chart as drawn out. There may be other scenarios also.
 

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KineKilla,

Your explanation is for the LE and OIL bounce point rules. With the antlerless permits everything is ran on a preference points system where 100% of the tags are given out to those with the highest number of preference points. The only exception to that rule is the number of tags (20% per unit I think) that are held in reserve for youth (some senior citizens tags may be with held also I am not sure how many). Because of the youth tags it is not uncommon to see people with 0 points drawing on a preference point system.

400bull
 

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The tags that seem to "fall through" are the 20% that are reserved for youth. The 7 successful applicants for the unit referenced would have been the youth.
Derekp's explained the same thing to me recently ... so here's a quick addition: In some units you will not be able to tell from the reports how many juniors there are, which means that you're not able to check your odds. Often, a "rough look" will have to do, especially if you don't have 3, 4, 5 points.
 

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I believe Catherder's explanation which includes group apps is the most correct. I've had guys tell me they have 4 pref points for general deer and can't draw a tag. Upon further investigation I find out they have put in with someone else as a group. A group app throws a whole new twist in the mix that many don't realize.
 
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Another question would be how do group applicants show on the list? For starters I don't think we get the luxury of a 1/2 a point. So in Cat's scenario both applicant's would then have 1 point. Do both show as 1 point guys on the list, or do they show as 3 and 0?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks also KineKilla for your link to the earlier thread 'Draw odds fluctuations explained?'
 

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Points, No Points, Bonus, Preference, LE, GS, OIL OR OIAL, a guy can't keep it all straight...I stand corrected.

But hey, I got something right.....right?
 

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Another question would be how do group applicants show on the list? For starters I don't think we get the luxury of a 1/2 a point. So in Cat's scenario both applicant's would then have 1 point. Do both show as 1 point guys on the list, or do they show as 3 and 0?
If the results broke out the applicants into individuals you would see a lot of applicants with higher points that were not successfull... but you don't see that so logically that tells me the results reflect the point pools that were used in the drawing.
In Cat's scenario the group would show up in the 1 point group & not split between the 3 and zero point group.

Group applications are handled the same way across the board, regardless of whether it is a bonus point or preference point application. The total number of points are averaged and rounded DOWN so there are no half points.
So the group with 3 and 0 points would go into the 1 point pool.
A group that I applied with a couple years back for a LE tag had four guys with 12, 7, 5, and 3 points... we had a 6.75 point average & went into the 6 point group.
 
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