I hunt in Levis and an olive drab jacket. /shrug

-DallanC

 

Gimmicks! Pricy ones is all it is. I use carharts to hunt. The only reason I do not use levis/jeans is because blue is a very bright color to the eye spectrum of ungulates. Buy khaki/brown carhart stuff and you're good to go.

 

It’s expensive because camo is meant to fool hunters, not animals! 😉

With that being said, some of the newer stuff is so darn comfortable it’s worth the money to some.

 

For me, it’s about protection from the elements, I hunt hard and spend the entire day in the woods, rain or snow, so I need equipment that will keep me warm and dry, no matter the circumstance.

 

+1

I have one nice piece of camo... a Goretex camo jacket. Got one for the wife too... Browning brand, but its all Goretex. Its over 20 years old and doesn't leak a drop. Its been to Alaska a bunch of times, use it around here hunting on rain days. It was well worth the $$$... but really, I got it for the waterproofness, not the camo pattern.

-DallanC

 

Couldn’t have said it better, DallanC! I don’t care about the pattern much at all, I just care if it works. I love my goretex jacket, just ordered some pants to go with it.

what part of AK?

 

what part of AK?

Ketchikan a ton, Juneau a ton. Anchorage, Seward, Kenai, Soldotna, Homer, Sitka. Been on float planes out in the Mulchatna drainage for caribou. Really dont remember how may times... close to 20 if not that. Love the place. We primarily just go to Juneau now, we catch about everything we want there fishing. Pretty area too... although IMO, Seward is the most beautiful place to stay / fish around.

Planning a fall trip back up there as we speak. Maybe 3rd or 4th week in August.

-DallanC

 

I do 90% of my big game hunting in Levi's and cotton shirts. If the weather turns bad I have coveralls and jackets to put on. If I am wearing camo it is usually some military BDU's in woodland camo with either a matching shirt or just a run of the mill cotton camo shirt.

One place that I won't skimp on is my footwear. If you plan on covering miles and gaining elevation your boots better fit and be up to the task.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

 

I probably know more about Camo then I should admit to. This is just my opinion, but hunting clothes matters less about the pattern, and more about what it's made of, and how it's designed.

First, let's just kick one thing out right now. You don't need to go buy all the name brand/expensive camo. If I see a guy rocking all sitka or first light, I know you've spent a grand on your hunting clothes. You don't need to. They look cool to the human eye, but thats about it. I'll just point out the obvious, that human and deer/elk don't see things the same way. This is a good illustration:

Deer

Click here to open a full-width version. Field-of-view: If you have ever seen a herd of deer with their heads down foraging in a field, you will notice that at any given time, at least one animal w…

www.azandisresearch.com

As concealment goes, there are two big things you can do without spending a dime:
1.) Mind the wind direction. A bottle of wind checker will conceal you the best.
2.) Mind your movement. I don't know about you, but I spot a good deal of wildlife when they move. When it comes to spotting you, animals are no different.

Beyond that, Camo is just "extra" icing on the cake. All you really want is a camo pattern that:

• has color tones that are similar to the environment your in (not a blue dye based, and nothing excessively dark in tones)
• breaks up your silhouette. Mind you a lot of patterns blob up at a distance, so they don't break up your outline at all.

As breaking up your silhouette goes however, a lot of that is just good woodsmanship. Not skylining yourself, not walking out into open fields, etc.

What I pay more attention to, is what the hunting clothes are made of. The only two things I pay attention to is:

- How it performs when wet, either from sweat or from rain. Sitting down and having to stay still for 2-3 hours when it's cold and frosty on the ground with a wet cotton T shirt under your coat, SUUUUCCCCKKKKSSSS. Also Being caught in a winter storm, and your cold and wet from the waist down also blows major suckage. When you have to keep moving or you risk going hypothermic, you'll start wondering if there were better choices in clothing.

- Scent control. This is just my opinion, but In general I think this overhyped from marketing trying to sell you a bunch of crap. As hunting clothes go, this just equates to washing them with a scentless detergent that doesn't have UV brighteners, made of some material that doesn't stink up too quickly. I've actually been 25 yards upwind of a buck, and he didn't smell me for awhile. I think that was primarily doing some sort of scent control. Your never going to remove your scent entirely, just reduce it so your not as pungent to the animals nose. They're going to smell you regardless. If your out hunting for several days, turn them inside out, and lay them in the sun for several hours. Let the sun kill some of the oder causing bacteria.

Keep in mind that camo companies, are ALWAYS coming out with some new and improved camo that is , shall we say, "scientifically based" on how ungulates see. I think they do this to stay relevant, but also because they need to keep selling something to stay in business. I think the best time to buy camo, is when one of these companies comes out with a new pattern. They'll want to offload the "old and busted" on clearance, so they can start shilling "the new hotness". It's all marketing, don't fall for it.

Now all said, does one really need the fancy camo? No. Just don't wear cotton directly against your skin, and keep rocking the woodland BDU's and for the most part, you'll be fine. Personally, I like camo, but that fondness only goes so far; because most of it, is a bunch of overpriced **** that does the same thing as some of the "lesser camo".

As an aside, there are three different types of camo.
- Mimicry (think realtree, mossy oak, kings)
-Dispersal (probably not the actual term, think digital patterns. Their main intent is to break up outlines, think Sitka, or any modern military pattern)
-3D ( Think ghillie suit)

 

What do you guys consider a good brand of hunting clothing for being good quality while not being too much of a drain on the wallet? I know you generally get what your pay for but....

 

personally, I use Under Armour camo, I run the barren pattern. I’ve never had any issues with it and it has always performed the way it should.

I think as far as price goes, under armour and firstlite are the best balance of performance and price.

 

Badlands is having a 40% sale right now, I haven’t used any of their camo but people seem to like them.

I do have one of their backpacks and a bino case, they work fine

 

Up close badlands is probably ok as a pattern, but from far away, all the miniaturized pattern sort of melts away. I saw a guy in all badlands during archery, from 300 yards or so, he stuck out like a sore thumb. All i saw was a dude in bright sand colored tan.

 

"Expensive" is subjective. I will never hunt in denim again, ever. Those that do, good for you; i'm not sure how you're staying dry in inclement weather or putting in the miles during archery. Again, good on you if you can do it. KUIU is not expensive to me, i've purchased 2 pairs of pants in the last 7 years and they've held up exceptionally well. Same for the jacket, it's quiet, well thought out, and has held up perfectly to many hunting and fishing trips. I don't think about camo whatsoever, 90% of my stuff is all solids. KUIU has a big sale every year, take advantage of it.

Badlands merino isn't bad if purchased on sale, but you can't beat the Black Ovis hoody. It's my absolute favorite piece of clothing for hunting, fishing, scouting, or anything else. The zipoff base layers from KUIU are fantastic as well, really well designed and definitely with me on the late season hunts. It all boils down to your hunting locations, style, and personal preference for fit and function. Again, when factoring all of this, "expensive" is subjective.

 

At the end of the day, you just gotta do what you feel comfortable with and be happy with your decision. Not everyone hunts the same, or even in similar terrain so the needs from one hunter to the next can vary drastically.

Under armour is having a sale right now so I ordered these bad boys. I like the fact that I can slip them on when it starts raining ☔ fairly easily, to me, it’s worth the money.

Men's Ridge Reaper® GORE-TEX® Pro Shell Pants

Shop Under Armour for Men's Ridge Reaper® GORE-TEX® Pro Shell Pants

www.underarmour.com

 

In answer to your question- their profit margin is very good. Having been on the inside of that game for a long time (not there anymore) there is a very healthy profit margin in clothing. That being said, several of the clothing partners (ie GoreTex, Vibram, etc) also want their profit margin, so a decent amount of money does go into components. Zippers and magnets are some of the most expensive components of gear, just so you know. Some of the clothes I've seen have 50-70% retail margins on them pretty regularly.

The premium brands do cost more to make, but not THAT MUCH more. Sitka does have quality stuff (I have a Sitka jacket that I really like- but was a gift from a vendor). What several of the other "premium brands" did to gain even more margin was to develop a direct to consumer brand like KUIU. They have premium retail and get both margins, the production and retail margins- those have to be very healthy margins.

Royalties are where a lot of the costs gets put into a piece of clothing. RealTree wants a royalty on any fabric that goes on a garment. While working and dealing with that, we could save a lot of money by using a non branded camo, or a house branded camo. BassPro ended up buying TrueTimber as a camo manufacturor/producer. Imagine a garment that required 2 yards of material. A non-branded camo could be $2 yard, a branded camo could be $4-5/yard.
I was in the ground blind area, so 10-20 yards of camo could be used, so adding $3 per yard significantly impacted the production cost, throw in top quality zippers (we didn't scrimp with zippers whenever possible), and that can impact a total cost and retail price point so we could optimize cost/margins. To meet production minimums and time frames (I feel really bad for any importer these days), you had to secure camo/fabric 180 days prior to production. We would have fall hunting products finalized by now and ordered January for July/August delivery.

But to answer your question, camo clothing margins are healthy.

 

I bought camo because the clothing I wanted only came in camo patterns at the time. I'm glad companies are starting to make the same gear in solids because, for the most part, I'd rather be in solids anyway.

And to each their own, but levis and cotton shirts are simply not up to par with other fabrics when it comes to comfort, or more importantly on many days, inclement weather. That is not a personal preference or opinion, it's just a fact. Not every quality piece of clothing costs as much as Sitka costs, but very few brands compare in quality to what Sitka produces either. You can find some exceptions, but they are rare. So as stated above, you get what you pay for. You can pay $20 for a pair of pants and go kill deer and elk. No doubt about it. You may not enjoy your day as much, especially if inclement weather comes through, but you can still do it.

 

So as stated above, you get what you pay for. You can pay $20 for a pair of pants and go kill deer and elk. No doubt about it. You may not enjoy your day as much, especially if inclement weather comes through, but you can still do it.

I do a lot of my hunting in my goretex upland brush pants. I don't get wet, and if I'm not wet, I'm usually not cold. But those can be BRUTAL if it's warm and then cools off because of sweat cooling.

I hunt in a lot of carharts. Killed several elk in Carhart or my brush pants, hardley ever wear camo pants.

 

My $0.02:

If a person wants to spend their hard earned money on expensive camo, I think they should. I'm cheap - I'd rather experience new and different experiences than have a closet full of the newest and coolest camo. My style of hunting isn't one where I'm beating the brush all day long nor do I need to become invisible to the animals.

These are my go-to pants: Wrangler Men's ATG Performance 5-Pocket Pants

I like to get puffy jackets from the Columbia outlet in Park City when they are on clearance - I see no use in paying $300+ for a puffy jacket with a "name" on it.

I have a Marmot rain jacket that I got on clearance also - like I said, I'm cheap. I always have a super lightweight tarp with me. If the rain gets too bad, I'll hunker down under the tarp, start a little fire, and have some hot chocolate.

Spending a week hunting in AK this fall really changed the way I look at gear...

 

I'm cheap..... like I said, I'm cheap...

Said by the accountaint! 🤣😂

So, how did the Alaska trip affect your view on gear? Good gear is worth the money. I'm not above spending money on something that will last me. I'm wearing 6 year old boots because I spent a lot of money on them and they hold up. I can't bring myself to wear or buy some of that premium high end stuff.

 

I have two pair of camo insulated rain pants. I have two because I forgot I bought one pair, when i ran across the 2nd pair a year later for sale. Its all good, they fit my son or wife as well.

But here's the kicker... I paid less than $35 each...!

One is Coleman brand, the other... I dont recall. They are both super warm, both are rainproof (for now). They have decent sage'ish type camo pattern. They've both been on a dozen or so hunts... so far so good. If they ever start to absorb water, a simple coating of waterproofing spray should be fine. If they ever rip... well, I'll deal with it then. But atm at $35 they have already been well worth the cash.

Watch for deals (I found mine on ebay, new old stock clearance sales). You absolutely do not need high $$$ camo to kill anything. I actually think less when I see a guy in full expensive camo rocking $199 binos. The guy i was most impressed with that I met on the mt one day, had old well worn boots, well worn ball cap, levis, comfortable normal jacket and rocking 8x32 Swaro's. That guy knew what he was doing. We sat and talked for quite a while watching some deer feed past 300 yards away.

-DallanC

 

R&D, Sourcing, Marketing, Distribution.
It is crazy how much a lot of that costs. And in general most of the hunting clothing companies are pretty small potatoes when it comes to purchasing and manufacturing. It is actually refreshing to see companies like Wrangler incorporate modern fabrics in their offering.

High performance clothing and equipment has always been expensive. No matter the venue.

 

Johnny, out of curiosity, what rain gear would you get for Utah? Granted, we don’t get rain anymore, or snow apparently but I’d rather have the gear in my pack and not need it, then need it and not have it.
I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I have to come off the mountain because of weather, hunger or dehydration, so I make sure I have what I need to stay out, from dark to dark

 

Johnny, out of curiosity, what rain gear would you get for Utah? Granted, we don’t get rain anymore, or snow apparently but I’d rather have the gear in my pack and not need it, then need it and not have it.
I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I have to come off the mountain because of weather, hunger or dehydration, so I make sure I have what I need to stay out, from dark to dark

Honestly in UT all I ever used for rain gear were cheapo clear plastic ponchos over whatever my normal everyday rain jacket was at the time. Never was a problem for me.

 

??? I was either rained on or snowed on virtually every day of the big game hunts this year. ML season was miserable. Rifle season more so.

-DallanC

 

Me too, DallanC but Oct was kind of a D-tease, we haven’t had much since

 

Gotcha. Opening weekend of rifle season we couldn't access some areas due to 2ft of snow making it impassable. F'ing cold and windy. Clothes held up great, needed better hats and gloves though (got several of each as Christmas presents already )

-DallanC

 

I was actually very impressed with my wife opening day, there were times we couldn’t even see because of how much snow was blasting us in the face but she kept going and really enjoyed herself. She wound up shooting her buck at about 4pm that day

 

Lots has been discussed above, but I'll add some insight. Here's some background:
I began working at an outdoor store in 2002ish, while in HS and Boy Scouts. Boy Scout uniforms were never great to hike around in! I continued to work in outdoor retail in the cycling and skiing arenas, and still currently am almost 20 years later. I've had a lot of clinic time with outdoor brands, and worn a lot of different materials. I'll keep it pretty high level.
For me, camo is about being comfortable while being out there. I will not have a single cotton item on me while out hunting. It traps moisture and does not dry quickly. I have a variety of products in Merino wool and synthetic products.
Regardless of brand, synthetics and wool are superior to maintaining comfort in the field.
We'll look as Sitka as the example below.

Disclaimer I don't know if any of this is TRUE, I'm speaking on my knowledge of how other outdoor products are produced overseas, and applying it to Kings, badlands, and Sitka, as examples

Not all synthetics are created equal, where as most merino generally performs at a similar level, but, the higher end products are definitely superior.

For example, a $20.00 synthetic long sleeve shirt from Walmart wicks moisture well, but a $150 synthetic light weight long-sleeved from Sitka, etc, all maintain a higher level of performance. Sitka is a Gore company, so there is a TON of science and research going into these products to produce the best possible system for those hunting in a variety of conditions. Material costs are relatively cheap, however when you factor in whether or not the brand owns their own facility in Asia (we're excluding all US manufacturing currently, as I haven't had a chance to dive into any of the newer brands that are doing it in the US, which adds substantial cost).

A brand like Kings or Badlands is most likely made in a factory that pumps out athletic wear for a variety of manufacturers, they have their fabric prints, and are made in large quantities, which is relatively cheaper than a brand like Sitka (which is most likely produced in a GORE owned mfg facility in Asia) with higher quality materials.
Not saying kings or BL is bad, but just most likely using a different quality of synthetic fabrics at a cheaper MFG cost. Not to mention if its a contract where Kings or BL just says, make this in x pattern out of x material, Sitka may say, make this product out of this material, but it needs to meet more stringent standards and the stitching materials, etc are all higher quality. (Kifaru, in their latest QA podcast, discusses why their packs are more expensive than others, due to using US made, higher quality buckles, camo pattern is actually woven into the fabric, and higher tensile strength thread).

Then you tack on shipping (freight from Asia, taxes, duties, etc upon landing (each item could be different given the materials and area of origin), shipping from port to warehouse, unboxing and inventorying items in the warehouse, packing the items into boxes shipped to either the end dealer or direct to consumer. There's a lot of costs associated with it, but if you look at Kings vs. Sitka, a Sitka long-sleeved lightweight hoody with a comparable kings might be $150 vs $100 at retail, however Kings has (most likely) less overhead cost and more distribution to larger (Box) stores, so their cost to a retailer may be 1/4 to 1/2 the cots of a Sitka piece.

Using the bike example, Huffy is produced in X factory that produces probably 15-20 other bike brand products in Asia, and use lower quality metals in their bike frames over someone like Niner bikes, which is a high end MTB producer who manufacturers frames in the same factory. More expansive QC measures, etc. Huffy has a setup, but Niner may have a larger list of requirements the frames need to meet in terms of fit and finish and tolerances before that frame leaves the factory. Same factory, two vastly different bikes coming out of it.

Hope this is coherent!

 

Whatever happened to Game Gear? They used to have a full line of hunting clothes that I thought was made in USA. I used to live right down the road from KUIU so being able to try stuff on was most important. I haven't had to replace any KUIU in years but when the time comes, I would like to see what other options are out there. As previously mentioned, KUIU used to be A LOT lower priced then they are currently, and for many of the reasons mentioned above as well. Any other US or non CCP made merino/synthetic clothing options?

 

Why is camo so expensive? Because it's cool. It's a fashion statement. And, we all know the only way to shoot 380" bulls and 215" mule deer is to wear a really cool camo pattern. Especially when you stick out like a sore thumb, as in a gray and brown KUIU pattern against lush green grass.

I might wear a camo top to help break up an outline, but always wear drab solids on bottom . That way you don't look like a dork when you walk into Smith's or Albertson's on your way home to pick up a gallon milk.

As far as functionality goes, anything with DWR fabric is usually pretty good for most of the lower 48 in semi-normal late fall/winter hunting.

Still liking the BlackOvis Cottonwood Creek line. Functional and affordable. You also don't have to sing the blues when you get that L-shape tear when misjudging a barb-wire fence crossing...

 

For the most part Camo is a damned fashion show. Spend your money on quality clothing that will keep you warm and dry and learn how to hunt. I hunted for over 65 years in levis and a plaid shirt and was always successful.

 

Agree there margins are healthy. And quality technical textiles (basically anything designed to wick/bead moisture, or retain or shed heat) is more expensive to produce. Things like quality zippers really matter when you are deep in an adventure. And Sitka and the like manage price points aggressively for a variety of reasons (it can be a nightmare for a brand for one seller to massively underprice gear in the online world).

But from a standpoint on local stores selling the stuff, at least the few left, they can often sit on tens of thousands dollars of technical gear/inventory that may or may not sell. I've known owners of a few stores, not related to hunting, and it can be a big financial risk season from season. Big chains have different risk structures but the price control often has to take smaller businesses into account.