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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wondering why the Fish n Game doesn't plant any (or hardely any?) Browns in lakes like Kolob, Minersville, Enterprise, Newcastle, or Baker? ITs always the same ol rainbows with an occasional cutthroat. Whats the reasoning for this?
 

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I agree. Browns are very successful at reproducing, are quite efficient preditors and are not very selective of what fish they eat and they are not that easy to catch in lakes. So they could over populate, over predate game fish and they don't get thinned as easily as rainbows. And if the goal is to have a pescivorous fish to controle rough fish, tiger trout do this very well and their numbers are easily controlled by stocking because they are steril. That makes them a much better choice for stocking programs. Bear lake cutts are also good preditors, are so poor at reproduction that they need help so don't overpopulate easily and I think one of the reasons they have been used by the DWR is to preserve the species because they are a native species. Browns are not. My 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
good at reproducing = more naturally born trout = less cost for dWR...efficient predators = bigger fish....browns usually get bigger....prettier....sounds like a GO to me!
 

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Jeremy28 said:
good at reproducing = more naturally born trout = less cost for dWR...efficient predators = bigger fish....browns usually get bigger....prettier....sounds like a GO to me!
right now the dwr's goal is to keep the fisheries with cutts in them in the states control. they dont want them to become endangered so the feds will start regulating them. that is why they plant tigers because they can be used for rough fish control and they wont overpopulate. also rainbows dont reproduce well but where their are cutts they stock sterile bows to minimize hybridizing. sterile/hybridized fish actually grow bigger and faster than normal fish. not saying browns dont get huge but it takes them longer.
 

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Jeremy28 said:
Just wondering why the Fish n Game doesn't plant any (or hardely any?) Browns in lakes like Kolob, Minersville, Enterprise, Newcastle, or Baker? ITs always the same ol rainbows with an occasional cutthroat. Whats the reasoning for this?
Why? Basic fish management.

Predators vs. Prey come into play much when looking at a situation like this. If a lake is already full of predators (Enterprise, Newcastle) then adding an additional predator isn't going to be a good scenario. Baker has brown trout. Kolob is fantastic fishery that thrives due to natural recruitment from Kolob Creek with the cutthroat. Put brown trout in there, and you lose that natural recruitment. Minersville is fed by the Beaver River, which is already chuck full of brown trout. Stocking brown trout in Minersville is unnecessary. It's already got browns in it. Which brings me to one of the biggest reasons they are typically not stocked in reservoirs: the majority of fishermen can't catch lake resident brown trout. That's not a slam, or attack, at anyone. They are difficult to catch in lakes, and the majority of fishermen don't get any benefit from them being in the lakes and reservoirs.

The claims of more natural recruitment equally more and bigger fish is a false assumption. Many times this equation turns out too many fish, which equals small fish, which equals more problems / time / money spent to correct the problems.

If you are truly interested in the management of our fisheries I would highly recommend that you read through this document: http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/blueribbon/4-step_plan.pdf

If you still have questions -- give the Southern Region offices a call and talk with either Mike or Chuck. They'll give you straight up answers.
 

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Wow, I must be quite the accomplished angler then. I caught dozens of browns out of a lake this morning in a few hours-- biggest fish pushing 11". Hurry folks, Tibble Fork is freezing up quick!

Really though, PBH is right. I have caught just a few browns out of larger lakes and they were all through the ice. Not the easiest fish to target in lakes and they are already present in most of our larger ones. DWR isn't about to start a brown stocking program when they are so readily available in almost every stream in the state at no cost to them.
 

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Used to catch many large browns out of Porcupine from the tube. But it was night fishing with large black buggers along the shore lines. Sadly those days are gone
 

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ScottyP hit it right on the head. Most of your average recreational spin fishermen (who the DWR caters to anyway) would have a tough time catching them. How many of you catch predominantly browns out of tibble fork on bait? When you use flies it is almost all you catch. Browns do NOT do well in most stillwaters also because they are a fall-spawning fish. Many of the streams feeding lakes/reservoirs are very low that time of the year, limiting spawning habitat and creating upstream natural barriers. Rainbows and cutthroat spawn in the spring, when the water is higher, allowing them access to more spawning habitat.
 

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flyguy7 said:
Browns do NOT do well in most stillwaters also because they are a fall-spawning fish. Many of the streams feeding lakes/reservoirs are very low that time of the year, limiting spawning habitat and creating upstream natural barriers.
Wouldn't this actually be a benefit and a positive reason for planting brown's in more lakes? If spawning habitat was poor, then this would provide the DWR with a way of controlling brown trout numbers, thus reducing the risk of potential problems due to uncontrollable populations due to better spawning habitat.

I don't believe that fall-spawning / limited spawning habitat has ANYTHING to do with why more brown trout are not stocked in our reservoirs.

I'd also argue your bait theory. In fact, I'd bet I could catch more browns on bait from tibble fork than the majority of flyfishermen. Obviously, it all depends on what bait you are using. Give me a nightcrawler or a dead minnow, and I'll outfish the majority of the flyfishermen!
 

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PBH said:
I'd also argue your bait theory. In fact, I'd bet I could catch more browns on bait from tibble fork than the majority of flyfishermen. Obviously, it all depends on what bait you are using. Give me a nightcrawler or a dead minnow, and I'll outfish the majority of the flyfishermen!
Now them's fightin' words!!! I really think it would be cool to see a battle between a bait fisherman and a flyfisherman on this. A civil battle of course, but I think it would be very interesting to see.
 

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If I wanted to catch more browns it would definetly be with bait- I didn't start fly fishing because I thought I would catch more browns with a fly rather than a bullhead or a crawler.
Personally I don' think it would even be a close competition
 

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Packfish said:
If I wanted to catch more browns it would definetly be with bait- I didn't start fly fishing because I thought I would catch more browns with a fly rather than a bullhead or a crawler.
Personally I don' think it would even be a close competition
this is true, but when you catch one big lake brown on a fly rod you start looking for more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Anyone sho says that bait fishing is superior to fly fishing is off they're rocker! I used to do nothing but bait fish/jig/troll but once I switched to flyfishing this year, there is no comparison at all. Its all logic.....Fly fishing imitates what they eat better than anything else which = more success. Bigger more selective fish will hit a fly 10^10 times more often than they would anything else. An exception would be a worm or minnow but with flyfishing you can use lines to target the depth that they are at AND cover more territory because you can't fish fast with a worm/minnow.
 

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Jeremy the only problem is the depth. i have type 3 full sink and have fished type 6 full sink and sometimes still dont get deep enough. as for fly-fishing in general. yes you will catch more-and typically bigger-fish , because flies imitate their natural food source, but lake browns rarely get caught on anything let alone fly gear. they do attack minnows (i have a great brown trout minnow pattern) but if you were to chuck a dead minnow LOAH style or a worm you would probably catch more browns, but flies may get you more fish. also i think it is probably easier to catch browns with lures than flies. i think this because lures typically are aimed to go to a certain depth and look like a wounded fish. flies go as far as the line and look like a slow swimming minnow. as for covering more area, fish are as lazy as humans. they dont like to move a lot, so if they see a minnow zooming by they might not go after it but if they saw a minnow floating a few feet from them they will probably be inclined to take it (spawning time disobeys every "rule"/habit though). another reason you probably did better with flies is because fly-fishing forced you to learn trouts habits and places they hide. because of this you now know better where to find these fish and what to use depending on the situation.

if you are talking river browns-that depends on the river, but typically flies will be more productive.
 

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PBH, you may be right on some waters but have you fished tibble fork before? I have watched bait guys do quite well there but for the planter bows, not the browns. Those browns get in a mood at times (like the other day) where they smack a soft hackle or nymph stripped quickly through or just under the film and it is a fish every cast. I litterally caught more than 40 little browns in a couple hours of fishing the same spot. I have never seen a bait guy there have success for the browns that came remotely close to that kind of action.
 

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Jeremy28 said:
Anyone sho says that bait fishing is superior to fly fishing is off they're rocker! I used to do nothing but bait fish/jig/troll but once I switched to flyfishing this year...
This year, eh?

Jeremy28 said:
Its all logic.....Fly fishing imitates what they eat better than anything else which = more success.
Wait a minute. Are you telling me that an imitation works better than the real thing? That just plain doesn't make sense!

I"m a flyfisherman. I've been a flyfisherman for many years. I learned to fish streams using bait with a fly rod. Grasshoppers, minnows, nightcrawlers, rock-rollers. I've since moved on to flyfishing for two reasons:

Confidence -- I have total confidence that I can catch fish using flies if I try hard enough. Sometimes, the "try hard enough" is pretty easy. Sometimes it's hard.

Challenge -- flyfishing is much more of a challenge.

With that being said, if one of my brothers (I know that they've been taught how to fish a stream with bait...) ever challenged me to a competition - fly vs. bait - I certainly hope I'm not the one left holding the box of flies! I know they'd beat me 2:1.

...OK. So, maybe I'd be up for the challenge!
 

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It really wouldn't be a close competition. I started in the late 70's with a fly rod but grew up with the spinning rod, live bait, a black maribou jig and a rapala and there is no way if you give me that arsenal that you can beat me day in and day out with a fly rod and I think of myself as a fairly accomplished angler with a fly rod. Now I may be greater in my own mind than I really am but going on 30 years with a fly rod just out of that much time on the water I have to be at least semi accomplished.
But I enjoy a fly rod more and have caught some very large browns in Utah both in the river and on the lake. I would have caught more out of the lake with a minnow that I did with the fly though. As PBH said " An imitation is better than the real thing ?"
 

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one thing you guys are forgetting is you have to have what the fish are targeting. for instance if the fish are hitting surface flies or emergers, fly-fisherman will out fish bait fisherman easily. if the fish are targeting nymphs (probably the most nutritious for them for the least amount of work) the fly-fisherman will win easily also. if the fish are targeting fish it could go either way. if they are targeting what looks good the bait fisherman will probably out fish the fly-fisherman because the bait fisherman has the real thing.

i have been to many places this year where bait fisherman (using all different kinds of bait) and lure fisherman weren't catching a lot if anything. i go out there with a fly rod use a dry fly and a dropper (nymph or emerger) and i out fish them easily 20:1. that is because the fish are targeting on top and bait fisherman can't get their bait there.

back to the original topic, IMO fly fisherman will catch more and bigger fish than other types of open water fisherman, but bait fisherman will catch more lake browns than fly-fisherman, easy.

packfish when i get back i will take you up on that challenge.
 

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Get ready to be humbled and I haven't picked up a spinning rod with bait on it for 20 years. (0:

There will always be fish in the river that will take bait, I don't care what else is going on. And by the way, I can take a seine and get "real" what ever you are fishing with.
Go up above the first dam on the Logan, roll over some rocks and take those may fly nymphs and put them on a nymph rig ( small hook, split shot and even a friggin ballon if you want) and tell me what happens. Been there done that thru my college days and it fed 4 guys on a regular basis.
 
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